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1909 P VDB LWC No Dots In VDB

 
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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/17/2019  02:36 am  Show Profile   Check tropicalbats's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add tropicalbats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've got a roll of VF and better sitting around. I'll check them when I get back but I figure odds should be low of finding something like this by randomly looking at just 50 coins. But over time with lots of folks looking a few more might turn up.
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 Posted 09/17/2019  10:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's hard to explain the slight circular depressions where the dots should be. Maybe this is PMD from some kind of rotary tool used to grind off the dots. But it would need to have been done years ago because there are no obvious tool markings.
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 Posted 09/17/2019  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Note the devices are wider that tells, me it is a struck through a slight amount of grease that mostly filled the dots. That is what I see.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 09/17/2019  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On my cent or Panthers cent, coop? On my cent circulation wear and a couple of light dings are causing that appearance in my opinion.
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 Posted 09/17/2019  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Panther to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jim, I'm beginning to think that everyone thinks only one cent missing the dot has been posted in this thread.
There are TWO cents posted here. One by Jim, and one by myself.
Jim it was not my intention to confuse, I just thought it was of interest.

Dan
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 Posted 09/17/2019  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is no problem Dan. No harm, no foul.
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 Posted 09/17/2019  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Check Yokozuna's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Yokozuna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Panther, I did a second animation with your coin and just the "dots" from Coop's image. You can see the anchor I used on the bottom corner of the D.

I find it helps me locate the right area on the coin. (Now I need to find one like this!)
"Shine, shine, a Roosevelt dime
All the way to Baltimore and running out of time" - Tom Waits 'Clap Hands'

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 Posted 09/17/2019  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Willburton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've been following this and my 2 cents is that the only way those dots are indented is they were overfilled with grease and it created a reverse bubble like effect on the coin itself..?
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 Posted 09/17/2019  9:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They could indeed be the impressions of "swelling die fillings", of the kind that I've reported on in Coin World in coins from the Indian subcontinent. But it would be odd that the grease skipped the letters and only filled the dots. Another possibility is a chipped working hub. Hub chips often break off just below the plane of the hub face, leaving a shallow depression in the shape of the missing element.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 09/17/2019  9:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've put a lot of thought in that Mr. Diamond after our email. I was a press operator a lot of years and for three perfect chips and not take out the devises closest to it is a one in a million shot. That is a very interesting theory. Also extremely plausible.
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 Posted 09/17/2019  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
But these dots are not indented on the coin. The post 1918 coins are. They are raised on the coins on the 1909 VDB. The dots are less shallow on the die compared to the VDB. So more easily filled in with grease. Thus blocking out most of the dots and partially filling in the tops of the devices leaving wider devices there. If they were chips they would be raised more. That is what I see on this coin.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 09/17/2019  11:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop, there are no dots, there are three slight indentions. I agree with Mike on this issue about the grease.
Edited by Jim0815
09/18/2019 06:03 am
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 Posted 09/18/2019  1:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Panther to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I tend to agree with the grease filled die, HOWEVER, the only concern I have is ALL 3 dots filled and nothing else disturbed makes no sense, maybe missing one dot or two, but all 3 with no collateral damage, the odds just seem high.

As far as circulation damage, I feel the example I posted is in relatively good condition,and to only have suffered the removal of all 3 dots, in my mind is rather slime. Keep in mind my example has not seen human hands since 1964. It's been in that 2X2 since then.

Dan
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 Posted 09/18/2019  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Panther to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have taken more closeup photos to attempt to get a better view of the area in question. These can be zoomed in for a closer look on your photo program.

Dan



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 Posted 09/18/2019  4:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jim0815 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dan, when I get the cent back from Mr.Diamond we need to look at the die markers if any to compare if they came from the same die.
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