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Extreme Macro Coin Photography

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 Posted 02/06/2020  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeffMTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks rmpsrpms for all the great information. I'll give it a shot and report back!
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 Posted 02/06/2020  08:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeffMTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I forgot to mention that I mount the Canon camera directly to the copy stand. With the 150mm macro it barely has enough arm length to shoot a slab.

Although camera bodies are relatively "inexpensive" my available space is limited; I don't want 2 setups. I have confidence that the members of this board have kept me from making a purchase I would regret (the Canon MP-E 65mm). Thanks to all!
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 Posted 02/07/2020  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeffMTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I purchased an adapter ring from RAF on eBay, but after the purchase I noticed the product is shipping from Moscow, Soviet Union. It's not expected to arrive for 4 weeks. Looking again at eBay it seems all the products come from overseas (China, Soviet Union, England, etc.). There's almost nothing located in the US (that I'm finding). Perhaps I'm using the wrong search terms?

I looked at Amazon as well- the same thing. I tried a web search but I'm not finding anything. Does anyone know if there a website where I can find adapter rings, RMS adapters, etc. that are located in the US?
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 Posted 02/07/2020  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thorlabs makes these

RMSA11 - Adapter with Internal M62 x 0.75 Threads and Internal RMS Threads

RMSA12 - Adapter with External RMS Threads and Internal M62 x 0.75 Threads

but the photo of the Russian one that Ray posted looks like it has external M62 threads and internal RMS threads. If that's what you need, then these probably won't work, but you might contact Thorlabs and see if they have what you're looking for or have a US source.
Edited by BadDog
02/07/2020 1:25 pm
Valued Member
United States
67 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2020  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeffMTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks BadDog for the reply- I just ordered the RMSA11 you linked. I just noticed, however that the 62mm end is female; how do I connect that to the female threads on my lens? Is such a connector made?
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 Posted 02/07/2020  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
U just need a 62mm male male coupling ring
-----Burton
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 Posted 02/07/2020  2:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadDog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
U just need a 62mm male male coupling ring

Right

It looks like the ones listed on eBay are foreign sources, but here's one from B&H Photo in NY

General Brand 62mm Macro Coupler (Male to Male)

but are you sure you want to get 2 converters instead of just the single one from Russia? It's cheaper and less complicated

Valued Member
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 Posted 02/07/2020  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeffMTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks all for the assistance- greatly appreciated. I think I have the right equipment ordered now.

99% of the battle seems to be knowing what to call items when searching!
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 Posted 02/08/2020  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeffMTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Before starting this thread I ordered a 2X tele convertor to use with the Sigma 150mm Macro lens. It arrived today.

After coupling it with the lens I noticed that the focus distance doubled. To shoot a full frame quarter image the lens was about 30" away from the coin. I immediately it was much more difficult to achieve a sharp focus; something to do with the added glass? The images shot turned out fine, but the additional glass didn't seem to add benefit for a full frame coin image.

The lens will focus to within about 12" of the coin; full image:



Below is a photo cropped from the above shot; the same MM from the original post:




I'm making progress. The microscope objectives and enlarger lens are on the way!
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 Posted 02/17/2020  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeffMTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Last week I received parts and pieces from numerous sources so I could:
1. Attach an infinite 4X Microscope Objective to my 150mm Macro Lean.
2. Attach a bellows to the camera body with a Rodenstock Rogonar 50mm enlarging lens.

The 4X objective took a bunch of adaptors to fit my lens due to unavailability of products in the US. The ring lights haven't arrived yet from China so I was stuck with conventional lighting. The objective needed to be about 1" from the coin to focus:



I presume the circular image is normal? Obviously not well lit nor well focused, but the above image was full frame. It needs work.

I got lucky with the Rodonstock enlarger lens- it had a 39mm mount so the parts were easy :



The above image is full frame with the 50mm. The lens was about 8" from the coin, so conventional lighting could be used. This system was so easy to work with that I ordered a 135mm lens from eBay. Hopefully I get lucky and it's another 39mm mount!

More to come as I progress....
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 Posted 02/17/2020  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is your microscope lens designed to work with a 200mm focal-length tube lens? If so, using it with a 150mm lens will give something like 3x instead of 4x, and the image circle might be reduced to 3/4 of its normal size. The normal image circle is usually 18mm to 30mm, depending on the objective.

It's also possible that the 150mm macro lens doesn't work well as a tube lens, because of its internal optical layout.
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 Posted 02/17/2020  11:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are very few objectives which are capable of covering Full Frame at rated magnification, let alone at reduced magnification. From the vignetting it looks like this objective can cover FF fairly well with ~225mm lens, but even at 200mm it's going to have some vignetting. Best alternative is simply to crop the image so the dark corners are gone. This has the effect of increasing the apparent magnification, as if a longer lens had been used. There is very little difference in final resolution whether you use a shorter lens and crop versus using a longer lens.

BTW, the objective image looks a bit out of focus. I'm not sure if it's due to actual focus issues, or vibration. Did you use Live View / EFSC? That is really critical for these magnifications.

Couple more thoughts...

Was your 50mm lens reversed or forward-mounted?

Note that a 135mm lens will give you lower magnification (with same extension) than the 50mm, not higher. You can still get the same magnification but at a much longer extension, probably longer than your bellows can go.

And a few more thoughts...

Enlarger lenses shorter than 50mm are much less common. You can get a Nikon 40mm, and a few mfrs make 35mm.

It seems you're happier with the "finite" method of shooting rather than "infinite", which is not surprising since it is more "normal".

You could consider going with shorter FL lenses which are purpose-made for macro use such as the Tominon series, but they require a different adapter still. The image comparison I posted earlier has results from the 35mm Tominon for reference, but they also made a 17mm which is highly regarded.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Edited by rmpsrpms
02/18/2020 10:35 am
Valued Member
United States
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 Posted 02/18/2020  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeffMTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rmpsrpms- The 4X infinite objective with 150mm macro was just a quick shot. Since there was inadequate lighting I wasn't too concerned about precise focus. Once I get the ring lights I'll experiment with it more.

The 50mm enlarger lens was mounted forward, not backward. I'll need to acquire more parts/ pieces to take that step. I don't prefer this method- I want to explore both (but I need more parts/ pieces). I was also using a cheap Chinese bellows with Canon mounts, but I did purchase a used Pentax Auto-Bellows from eBay (waiting for it to arrive).

I guess I made a $25 mistake purchasing the 135mm enlarger lens? Oh well......

What's the advantage of the 35mm Tominon? Is it a primary macro lens?
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 Posted 02/18/2020  2:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 135mm lens is probably going to work really well for full coin shots, so if you want to maintain one type of setup for both full coin and details shots, it is not a mistake at all!

The 35mm Tominon is designed to be mounted "forward" for macro imaging, and has pretty good image quality at the higher magnifications, probably better than most enlarger lenses. The M40 mount is a disadvantage, but if you install the adapter, you can make use of the other lenses in the Tominon lineup that was intended for the Polaroid macro system. There is a 17mm, 35mm, 50mm, 75mm, 105mm, and 135mm in the line, and all are quite good lenses for coins. With the 35mm and 75mm you can span from fine details up to bigger than Dollars. With the 105mm or 135mm, and a tall enough copy stand, you can frame full mint sets or larger.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Valued Member
United States
67 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2020  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JeffMTampa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Having a little time over the weekend, I tried the 4X microscope objective with the 150mm macro lens again. I took more care this time and attempted to stack 4 images:




This was taken using the ring light- it works well. I still have a lot more to learn, but the image was good enough to show the MM from an 1896 O Quarter was clipped at the bottom. You never know what you might find!
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