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Please Critique My Setup.

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Pillar of the Community
United States
3251 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2020  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, the new WB looks a bit blue to me. Something between the two?

One way to do WB when all else fails is just to set your WB to a stock setting close to what you think it should be, and do adjustments from there. Here's the process:

- set WB to Tungsten (assuming you're using Jansjos)
- Put grey card where your coin goes
- Slightly de-focus so you don't see any texture on the grey card surface
- Snap the shot
- Open the image
- Check RGB. It should be very close to the same for all channels
- Do a white balance on the grey card image and check RGB
- Save your image adjust settings
- Apply the image adjust settings to your later shots
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 03/10/2020  4:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I almost (almost) understand what you are saying.
Set to tungsten? Lights, focus, etc. Yep I am good with all of that.

After that, I am not so sure.

You mean open the image in your editing program? And adjust rgb in there?

Or something in the camera.

I am leaning toward you mean post editing.

Now, the program I am using (proprietary Olympus) I am certain has that capability, but I am going to have to go to school. That is a daunting program. !! For me at least.
Is there a simpler program that I should be looking for?
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 Posted 03/10/2020  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By "set to Tungsten" I mean choose the standard WB setting which corresponds to Tungsten lighting. It may be called "incandescent" or maybe just a picture of a light bulb.

Indeed I am saying that this process is in post-processing. You take a pic of a known color (grey card) and do adjustments to make that card look perfect grey (R=G=B).

I tend to use Canon Digital Photo Professional for everything, but I'm sure the Olympus software has similar settings.

If you post pics of the grey card and of the coin with same WB setting I can give more suggestions.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 03/12/2020  11:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You guys might have noticed that I deleted the previous post, as I said and did too many "wrong things".

I will taken another swing at it today.
Sorry for the ignorance.
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Canada
5274 Posts
 Posted 03/12/2020  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mcshilling to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jon K you are not the only one that does not fully understand the White Balance process. I'm following this as well.
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 Posted 03/13/2020  12:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you mcshilling, for dulling the pain just a bit.

Mr Ray, maybe I have what you have asked for.

A shot of the grey card. WB set on 3000K. Lights about where they will stay. Slightly out of focus.

Also a shot of the coin under those same lights and WB set to 3000K, just like the grey card.

And a screenshot of the coin opened in my editing program. 3000K Straight out of the camera. I have touched nothing.

I found the RGB button, the R Button, the G button, and the B button. They drop down from the "G" button pictured.








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 Posted 03/13/2020  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your grey card is showing the light is a bit "cooler" than tungsten. I'm seeing typical RGB of 99,97,111 in the middle of the image, indicating blue is a bit hot. In DPP I can just use an eyedropper to correct white balance on the image, but I don't see any obvious white balance adjust in the Oly software. Can you look around and find how to adjust WB?

I tried my method, eyedroppering on the center of grey image, saving the setting, then applying the setting to the coin image, and it does look good. I also noticed that you must have shot the slab image with the slab sitting on the grey card, as the "clear" areas at top and lower left are showing the grey card through. So it looks like you can just use the eyedropper technique directly on those clear areas, and it comes out fine.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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United States
723 Posts
 Posted 03/13/2020  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, that gives me some material to think on.
Those numbers, 99,97,111 I don't see where I can find those. I gotta go to school.

You are indeed correct, the coin is placed on the grey card, so if I can find an eyedropper, I do have concept of what I am trying to do.

As I am going to dive into this Olympus program, I might lose my mind, but please know that I appreciate all the help. Maybe they have WiFi in the nuthouse . . . .
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 Posted 03/14/2020  11:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 99,97,111 is the R,G,B of a particular pixel I chose near the center of your image. "Grey" means that R equals G equals B. So for instance "black" is 0,0,0, while "white" is 255,255,255. A light grey might be 150,150,150, and a dark grey 40,40,40. Whenever R=G=B you get some color of grey, often called grey scale. Note that grey = gray, just depends on where you grew up.

If you open an image in your Oly program, and put your cursor over the image, "somewhere" on the program screen you should see a set of numbers that look like:

(468, 1024) 10, 30, 120

These numbers will tell you the (X,Y) position of the cursor on the image, and the R,G,B color channel values of that cursor.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Pillar of the Community
United States
723 Posts
 Posted 03/14/2020  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jon K to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ah!
I gotta go to school.
No worries,
And thank you. I just need to make the time to emerse.
Valued Member
United States
54 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2020  01:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinphotofan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is possible to use axial lighting on slabbed coins, but it is very difficult, requiring a lot of tryouts. Here is a photo of a slabbed proof shot by a coin buddy in China:



Honestly, I have not been able to achieve this skill level.I am showing it just to prove that it can be done with lots of practice.
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United States
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 Posted 03/28/2020  11:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That shot of the Chinese proof coin was not done with axial lighting. Actually, it is not even close to axial. It looks like it was shot with a single light at 1:00, and possibly with a fill-in light at 9:00-10:00. Both lights were low enough to put highlights on the sides of the features, so probably ~60-70 degrees. Your friend probably pulled the light(s) to just low enough angle to avoid direct reflections off the slab.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
Edited by rmpsrpms
03/28/2020 11:27 pm
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 Posted 03/29/2020  12:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is possible to shoot a slabbed coin with (diffuse) axial lighting. Here's en example:

Canada -- 1 dollar, 1965 (normal lighting):



Same coin, but diffuse axial lighting:




(note: In this case, there seems to be no advantage to the axial lighting. It's mainly useful for brilliant proofs with no hint fo frost -- like you often see on Franklin halves.)
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 Posted 03/29/2020  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While you may say there is no advantage, I personally prefer the look of brilliant proofs lighted with axial type lighting, and this is an excellent example. Key to making it work is to have the slab be very transparent, either with polishing or an oil coating. I assume you saw significant glare from the slab surface, and ended up doing a fair amount of contrast adjustment to give the overall look you wanted. That's how I've done these in the past. Did you use "true axial", ie using a mirror, or "pseudo-axial", ie tilting the coin into a diffuse source?
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at:
http://macrocoins.com
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8305 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2020  6:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pepactonius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I assume you saw significant glare from the slab surface, and ended up doing a fair amount of contrast adjustment to give the overall look you wanted. That's how I've done these in the past. Did you use "true axial", ie using a mirror, or "pseudo-axial", ie tilting the coin into a diffuse source?


There is lots of glare from the slab. I used very even lighting (Edmunds Optics opal glass lit by a floodlight), to get the most even glare from the slab. This allows the Photoshop "levels" command to adjust the black level to subtract out the uniform glare. For this to work, the coin needs to be bright, so the glare doesn't completely swamp the light reflected by the coin.

I am using true (but diffuse, not harsh) axial lighting with a 50% beamspliter angled at about 45 degrees. Lens extension tubes of an appropriate diameter are used to shield the coin from direct light.

One big problem I have is sometimes getting green/purple fringing across the coin. When this happens, the only answer I've found is to heavily desaturate the image in post processing.
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