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1652 New England 3 Pence?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1721 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2021  3:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Same. Three and a half months since the last update and almost 6 months since it went to Paris. No news is bad news at this point I guess.
New Member
Netherlands
28 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2021  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add larsjan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I get a bit tired of it myself.
Indeed, it has been going on for months now and still no change.
Today I got the message that the company that has to bring the coin from Paris to the US still has not received the official documents from the French government in which they authorize export. The permission would have been given a while ago, but unfortunately the confirmation on paper is still not received.
The current pandemic is likely to be the cause of this extreme slowdown.

If there is news to report then I will of course share it here.
Even if there is less good news, I will share this with you, because I strongly believe in this coin and will not just give up with negative news.
Pillar of the Community
United States
558 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2021  7:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add StJoeBlues to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for not abandoning us here. I think there's so much eager anticipation. We're all pulling for you.
Valued Member
United States
180 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2021  8:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PNWType to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This thread pops into my mind sometimes, thanks for the update! I sure remain hopeful that it starts moving a little quicker around the globe soon!
Pillar of the Community
United States
3725 Posts
 Posted 01/22/2021  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Export approval of an American coin to America. Whoever imported it to France is in Big Trouble!
Edited by jimbucks
01/22/2021 9:16 pm
Valued Member
United States
257 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2021  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1796NoPole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wouldn't call this bad news. At the end of the day, they're not just going to steal your coin from you. None of this has any bearing on whether it's real or not or whether you'll get it back, it's just waiting. It is safe and I'm sure its holders recognize its potential value. Nothing has happened so far to shake your belief in your coin, so just keep at it.

But seriously, screw COVID. I'd get myself sick 10 times for a coin 1% this good. If I were you at this point, I'd be thinking about going down to France, getting my coin, and taking it to America myself.
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3380 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2021  10:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
At the end of the day, they're not just going to steal your coin from you.
If it was a Cypriot coin in a similar situation they would have; same for a few other countries. I don't think the USA is (yet) in the business of stealing their old coins that happens to come in from other countries, but the idea isn't quite as preposterous as it sounds like.

In this case, though, as I understand, the situation is closer to "all old coins in France are automatically considered unexportable cultural property of France unless proven otherwise - and such a proof is basically a formality in a case as obvious as this, but the formality is still required and the bureaucracy is being slow because Covid".
Pillar of the Community
United States
1721 Posts
 Posted 01/24/2021  12:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Which makes me curious if this is an EU thing or a France thing. Because this is not "cultural property of France" - for all we know, it was in the Netherlands for the past 200 years. I don't understand why France has any say in this, so maybe it's an EU requirement? Regardless, I'm glad it's not bad news yet, and it just adds to an already epic story.
Valued Member
United States
67 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2021  01:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add newguy22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@January1May

I don't think American government would ever steal a coin from someone, I think it would go against the idea of personal property etc. etc. But I don't know to be honest. They did do it for the 1933 gold double eagles, although there was a legal issue there. That's the only example I know of where America pulled that kind of card before. Who knows what the future holds.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17216 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2021  09:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No, as a signatory of the 1970 UNESCO treaty there are some coins that will be confiscated if you try to import them into the US.
Gary Schmidt
New Member
United States
13 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2021  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SimpleLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just created an account to be a part of this possibly AMAZING thread. If this is real, which seems to be a little bit likely, it will make history. Plus, it will look better than the other example (if you need an image of an NE threepence for, say, the Red Book, an example with a hole in it is a little less than ideal).
Moderator
Learn More...
United States
95662 Posts
New Member
United States
23 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2021  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Skeletonwizard8 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow. COVID has messed so much up. Maybe in 3 years this will finally make its way to the US and if genuine, it will make history.
New Member
United States
13 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2021  2:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SimpleLargeCents to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope it's not 3 years... I suppose it doesn't matter how long it takes, as long as we get a final result. It's a little hard to have that much patience, imagine how long this must feel for larsjan.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1522 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2021  12:20 pm  Show Profile   Check colonialjohn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately being out of U.S. Colonials for a decade and not having the purse for anything really more than a Pine or Oak Tree I can ONLY comment on the XRF analysis since I never paid much attention to MASS silver. Based on Pb, Cu and Au levels it appears IMO its made of period silver of the time (i.e., high certainty IMO) - but like some have mentioned the holder and XRF analysis are just two steps of many to prove its authenticity. Having said that if this was my coin and if it was possible (i.e., unlikely) I would run something beyond XRF analysis which is SEM/EDS of both the Mass. Historical Society piece and this piece. You can also view the coin's microstructure or its metallic makeup at say 40-60X level. Manufacturing processes leave signatures of how silver, lead, copper and other metals arrange themselves at the microscopic level at the surface of the coin - this method is totally non-destructive. If melted from eight reales you would see the differences. Before I retired I confirmed this type of cross-comparison in the laboratory with some fake to regal pieces using SEM/EDS and microstructure micrographs. For a piece of such significance I would take it a step higher above just XRF which was quite extensive and excellent done obviously on a expensive bench model. Some of you may have seen a recent paper I wrote on the 1821 Zacatecas from the Eric P. Newman Collection that was called cleaned and proved it was not based on AgS and CuS elevated levels on the surface of the coin which also negates environmental damage IMO. The problem here is exporting the MHS coin to a private lab so a more sophisticated analysis can be done. An XRF gun at MHS will not cut it if that is what your thinking as proof. Still you have experts in the U.S. that can do cross-comparison analyses of the die work. Good luck. This is the best CCF thread for 2020 IMO. Actually I never seen SEM/EDS microstructure/micrographs yet used for authenticity. I did use this method to prove on page 45 of Forgotten Coins that this Canadian Blacksmith token was cast and has a dendritic microstructure - and do we expect such a creature to be made between 1820-1840 in Canada as a Blacksmith Token when 1770-1775 Geroge III 1/2d casts are great rarities a half century earlier? - the Canadian jury is still out on this one ... <BG>.

John Lorenzo
Numismatist
United States
Edited by colonialjohn
01/27/2021 12:52 pm
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