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1994 1 Cent Doubled Die Obverse

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
915 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2020  01:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So I looked through about $25 worth of 90's rolls today and I still have a bit more to go through and although this one is not in MS condition, I did find another one none the less, with the exact same doubling.


New one I just found is the darker one on the Left, the Right one is the original one this post is about.





These following images here, you will see the New 1994 on the left, a Normal 1994 in the middle and the Original 1994 this post was about to compare the size difference of the devices, all photos were taken from the same distance.



Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
915 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2020  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, before the site went down I was in the middle of getting these remaining photos ready to be uploaded, glad to see we are back up and running.

I started looking at both coins to see if there were any possible markers on the Obverse and I found a Die Chip at the bottom of the queen that match each other.





Here is a GIF overlay of the die chip/marker.




Full Obverse of both coins.


Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
915 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2020  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just an update, following my research further into this 1994 1 Cent and I have came to the conclusion this truly is a DDO, not only have I found 2 identical coins showing identical doubling and same Die Chip marker, this coin can be compared to other Modern doubled dies as well (witch wouldn't be possible with Machine Doubling) like the 2013 5 Cent DDO I showed, and the 2012 5 Cent DDO I have yet to post.




If you take the 1st and last photo in that writeup that I did and do an overlay while matching the Green lines, you get this.




Note that the Devices width, or size for that matter is completely Unaffected, why?... Because a Doubled Die does not reduce the size of devices, only Machine Doubling does.

Next you see here, is a 1980 Machine Doubled Cent.



Now if you take the 1st and Last photo again, and do an overlay and match the Green lines up, you will notice that the devices are being Reduced in size, Why?.... Because Machine Doubling will Reduce the size of the devices due to the bouncing or shifting of the die while being struck.



For those who asked where the "Split Serifs" are, the font used after the 70's on Canadian Small Cents went from Pointly Serifs, to Rounded Serifs, so finding completely split serifs is almost next to impossible on coins from 1980's to present due to most modern Canadian Doubled Dies having less of a spread than the older Doubled Dies prior to the 1970's, but you will see the starting of the "Splits" like this.



Also note that where the Green arrows are pointing, on the surface of the Doubling, it is actually Smooth and the edges are slightly rounded like that of the Normal Device. If this were Machine Doubling the surface of the doubling itself would be completely flat with a sharp edge, and not rounded like seen in the photo above.


So all in all, This coin is not Machine Doubled, nor is it Die Deterioration Doubling. But in fact really is a doubled die obverse.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
3614 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2020  2:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me. they look to be MD, but I'm no expert. I also don't agree with your premise about the "widths" and expanding and reducing. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I DO love your work and photography however.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
915 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2020  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
To me. they look to be MD, but I'm no expert. I also don't agree with your premise about the "widths" and expanding and reducing. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I DO love your work and photography however.



Thank you for the kind words and for your opinion Okiecoiner, I respect any and all opinions for sure, along with scepticism none the less. I am by no means an expert either, but I have looked at Canadian Small Cents and other modern denominations long enough to be able to tell the difference with a good certainty.

My main issue lays with the fact that I can compare this coin to other modern and Confirmed doubled dies, but for some reason people are still skeptical.

Perfect example. All of the "I" letters you see here have all of the same characteristics to one another.



Here are the "E" letters showing all of the same characteristics once again.



Obviously the 2013 5 Cent DDO has a wider spread which in return does begin to show the separation and splitting of the devices, but none the less they again still show all the same characteristics.



If you look at the 2012 DDO and the 1994 DDO they are almost identical.

Again, my issue is if you take 2 known Doubled Dies, compare a New possible doubled die with those original known 2, and all 3 look identical characteristically, why would it make more sense to refuse to believe the 3rd is a doubled die.

Again, opinions are respected and appreciated, I'm well aware of what Machine Doubling and Die Deterioration Doubling is and how it works and I'm also open to learning new things, but I personally wouldn't put this much attention into something if I did not believe in it.

- I have Two, 1994 Canadian 1 Cent pennies showing exact same doubling in return means that more than 1 had been struck.

- they both Can Be Compared to Other known modern doubled dies.

- Both showing the exact same Die marker along with the same spread of doubling, once again proving that more than 1 was struck.

Those reasons alone don't seem to be the known characteristics of Machine Doubling. However it does sound a lot more like the characteristics of a Doubled Die.

This is just my honest opinion.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
3614 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2020  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The '13 looks, to me, to be DDO and just maybe the 2012, but I'm about 80% no .. and I don't think the '14 is one. Oh well, that's why I don't collect anything after 1920.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
915 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2020  6:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 2012 I have Zero doubt about it being a Doubled Die, I'm 100% confident it truly is. This is the photo of the "I" shown previously, you can clearly see the "Humps" or Notching from the result Die Doubling.

Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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Canada
9743 Posts
 Posted 04/26/2020  8:01 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a whole box (50 rolls) of 1994 1-cent coins from the mint. At least I'll have something to look for when I go through them.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Valued Member
Canada
151 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2021  9:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numidan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Finally had some time to check my 1994. Here is another one which I think is different than the one presented by JohnWayne007 (needs to be confirm).

I've selected the letters where split in the serif is most obvious.

Valued Member
United States
51 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2021  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dakota0404 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Love how passionate you seem to be about this, Definitely don't half butt things lol that's how it should be!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
915 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2021  08:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
numidan, your coin is a DDO as well.

I was, and still am, with 100% certainty convinced that mine and yours are both subject to a misaligned impression that happened during the hubbing process when the working punches created the obverse working dies for the 1994 Canadian 1 cent coin. Most of the doubled dies I have found or discovered have almost always been accompanied by a second variation.

When a doubled die occurs on a working die, often times it will happen on a couple of working dies and not just one, so finding a second variation like yours was just all in matter of time. I would put it in a 2x2 and hold on to it until my Canadian Doubled Die book has been published.




Quote:
Love how passionate you seem to be about this, Definitely don't half butt things lol that's how it should be!


Dakota0404,

Thank you, I do my best to document and research my finds as thoroughly as possible. My logic is, if we can get the Modern Canadian small cent studied and documented as thoroughly as possible for doubled dies like the US collectors did with the Lincoln memorial cents, it may open the doors to more interested collectors which in return would yield the possibility for even more unique discoveries.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
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