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Counterfeit Toonies Are Going To Be A Significant Problem

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New Member
Canada
14 Posts
 Posted 04/16/2021  11:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add polymer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the edges. Fake coins in the left stack, genuine in the right. The topmost coin in the left stack is a "Montreal Mint" coin. All fakes respond to a magnet the same way as genuine coins: the outer ring is magnetic and the core is not.

Valued Member
Canada
470 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2021  12:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsnpaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, polymer. The edges remind me of the US made nickel 10 cents of 1968, with a flat bottom. My Montreal 2005 counterfeit has very poor edges, it appears to be completely rifled and then some filed off. I had not thought to check it for magnetism.
Valued Member
Canada
470 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2021  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsnpaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Update in Vancouver- a lady reported a would be customer brought in one of the counterfeits, and she refused it. The "customer" left without his purchase. This happened in the last week (Apr.12- Apr.16).

Also a person in Waterloo reported buying 20 rolls of Twoonies and finding about 30 counterfeits in them.
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Germany
633 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2021  03:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add redlock to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder if the RCM -- or law enforcement -- is ignoring this problem. Clearly, is problem is spreading and something should be done.
Edited by redlock
04/19/2021 03:43 am
Valued Member
Canada
133 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2021  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinman91 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I found my first one today in some Tim's change. What do you guys think? This one weighs 7.18 rather than 7.31. The shine was a dead giveaway for me

There's always two sides to the coin if you have the patience to see. -Kathryn Budig
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Canada
180 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2021  1:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sammeli to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes fake
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Canada
1842 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2021  8:35 pm  Show Profile   Check nickelsguy's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yup
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United States
8621 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2021  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Silly american here. I've been watching this thread for a while, it seems like the counterfeits are decreasing in quality. The one posted above seems a lot lower quality than some a few pages into this thread.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
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Canada
360 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2021  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wannabfree to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
GrapeCollects, you are not wrong, at least as to how obvious these fakes are becoming to us. This is, I believe down to the excellent work by nickelsguy, both with his great articles and his posts on this site. The markers he has pointed out have made it very easy for us to verify the fakes once we suspect one. I went through 80 rolls 2 weeks ago and learned very quickly that I only needed a quick look at any particular coin to decide if it needed more than a visual.
He told us the only years to look for '96, 02, 04, 05, 06. These coins are new. Once you realize you are looking for a shiny new very old coin, even though the surface quality is not what we come to expect, it gets easy.
The larger problem, at least for me, is the lack of interest. The mint has not even acknowledged an issue with these 3 Billion Polar bear coins. Local law enforcement will gladly take them off your hands, (free gratis), so you are out 2 dollars every time you do the right thing, and the banks just continue to roll them up and resell them to any of us with enough ready cash. The only people really interested are collectors like us, of which many are quite happy to collect at least one or two of each year or just curiosity. It seems that we all want to be able to say we have a find. No one that I have discussed this with outside of the collecting community have any interest whatsoever. We have been inundated with these ezy come, ezy go Toonies for so long, that most of the General public do not even look at them. We know the difference between a loonie and a toonie when we need to pay for something and that is where it ends.
I don't have any real answers. I think I am just venting. Thanks for reading this......... and thanks for all the great info, Mike.
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Canada
4737 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2021  11:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I said this before, it is not the end user or collectors to ask for enforcement, the RCM in this case owns the copyrights it"s their job and only they have the rights to ask for legal actions. Just like any popular products that are counterfeited, the owner of the product needs to prove to the police that your patent or trademarks are being violated before the government agency will act. You have in this case a fellow member telling his local MP their is a problem and the RCM doesn"t seem to really care, it is not the end user or retailers to become counterfeit experts, if the RCM do not care, why should we.
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Canada
638 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2021  05:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wilsonwu89 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mike, have you had any luck getting into contact with your RCMP contacts?

I have a feeling the reason why this explosion of counterfeit toonies is not being reported in the news is likely because the police are actively investigating it. You can't catch the criminals if the news reports it and criminals are spooked into stopping their activities. CBC did seem interested in doing a story on this but the person stopped replying.

Since these people are actively dumping $1000 boxes of toonies at the banks. To catch these guys, simply send a memo to all bank branches across Canada to keep track of who is depositing full boxes of toonies and set the boxes aside before recycling them to Brinks or whoever. That's all it takes. I can't imagine too many people deposit boxes of toonies and someone who keeps doing it should certainly ring alarm bells. Though I suspect they're already doing this and keeping tabs on the depositors to try and find the source of who is at the top of the chain.

They can't approach these people the way we did at our store. We basically interrogated and skewered the customer using full rolls of these coins and all that happened was they clammed up, lied and ran out the door (minus their coins because we seized it). To find the source, the police are likely going to take their time to investigate, spy on suspected couriers of these coins and slowly find their way to the top.
Edited by wilsonwu89
04/20/2021 05:30 am
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4737 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2021  09:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can almost for sure the group responsible for creating these fakes are smart enough not to deposit 1000.00 boxes in your bank account, not only does banks charge a service fee now for coinage deposit. Have you thought as a retailer why take a chance of revenge actions if they get caught by your actions, again it's not our job but only the RCM
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Canada
634 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2021  10:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alex A to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@wilsonwu89, except the CBC reports go all the back to 2010 and according to that article both the RCMP and RCM "were playing down a report on a Toronto TV station...".

So the counterfeit issue has been well known for a long time and the responsible authorities have not done anything about it.
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Canada
550 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2021  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t_y to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The RCMP responded swiftly in the 'Montreal Mint' case. Yet, nothing this time. Why? Probably because the vast majority of fakes were still in storage. Not this time. Coins are trickling for about one year already.

The amount of fakes in circulation pales when compared with the normal ones. The cost to clean the coinage would be too big with a very small benefit.

So let's not think that the RCM and the RCMP don't know about this issue. They know. But for practical purposes, the inaction equates to DO NOT CARE.

Now, if the authorities do not care, if the RCM does not care, should we? Can we call these coins 'fakes' if the RCM doesn't? Their inaction gives them legitimacy.

If they are legitimate, right now, I am starting to consider these coins varieties: so we have twoonies struck in Ottawa and Winnipeg ("three toes") and someplace ("camel toe"). They should be included in the catalog, be accepted for certification and be included in the registry sets, giving them the recognition they deserve.

Not only that: there's a truck load of things to collect in this variety: rotated dies, die clashes, doublings ... and the list goes on.

Until RCM and RCMP come forward, I refuse to call these coins fakes.
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360 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2021  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wannabfree to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For anyone interested in a refresher, please go back to the 1st post in this thread dated July 8th of last year. It was by givemean95 and it certainly contains some great insight without reference to meaningless tripe like who is or is not responsible for the correction. Reading the entire thread puts so much more credence into this entire assault on our coinage as well as the almost indifference to what is actually happening.
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