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Counterfeit Toonies Are Going To Be A Significant Problem

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Author Replies: 142 / Views: 13,471Next Topic
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4742 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2021  12:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The real question I have to ask, those of you who are finding fake toonies, are you reporting them to the proper authorities? If so, what are the responses you are getting?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
557 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2021  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cdncoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Personally I'm not sure what makes the most sense. If I take them back to my local bank where I received the rolls, I'm not sure what their response will be.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4742 Posts
 Posted 01/02/2021  9:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Couldn't you report the coins you suspect to the RCMP?
Valued Member
Canada
75 Posts
 Posted 01/05/2021  07:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cedargrove to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The pre-security toonies represent around 70% of circulating toonies (the 1996 mintage alone is half that, at around 35%). It would take a long time to replace all those with the newer security toonies.

Furthermore I don't think it would make much of a difference, as the security features probably aren't that big a deterrent to counterfitters, They don't seem to mind putting out lower quality fakes, so I'm sure they could produce a counterfeit security toonie that doesn't replicate the security features very well, but that's close enough.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
622 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2021  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alex A to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
are you reporting them to the proper authorities?


A couple of questions:

1. Who monitors counterfeits and removes from circulation?

2. Who are the "proper authorities" for reporting counterfeits?

I see a ton of press about $1 and $2 bills being removed from circulation, but ZIP about circulation counterfeits.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4742 Posts
 Posted 01/06/2021  7:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheForce to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1. If collectors come across them I would think it would be their duty to report it. Banks could sort out the pre-security marked toonies.

2. I'm guessing you could report counterfeits to CSIS or even the RCMP.

3. If circulating counterfeit coins are becoming a thing, maybe it's time for action.


Quote:
A couple of questions:

1. Who monitors counterfeits and removes from circulation?

2. Who are the "proper authorities" for reporting counterfeits?

I see a ton of press about $1 and $2 bills being removed from circulation, but ZIP about circulation counterfeits.
Valued Member
Canada
463 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2021  01:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinsnpaper to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1) Banks will seize any counterfeits they come across, but they do not want to bother. They are only interested if the information comes from their head office, at least the one I deal with. I prefer to tell the cashiers and managers of places where I shop about the counterfeits, just so they can be prepared. I did that successfully with the bills with the taped on hologram strips when I was shown them by cooperative people at my bank. I think 5 of the stores I had warned about them were able to guard against them so they did not loose any money.

2) Counterfeits should be reported to your local police department, whether RCMP, Provincial, or municipal. They will also seize the counterfeits.

3) The police did not issue a lot of information about the 1988 Calgary $1 conterfeit, or the 2004-2005 $2 Montreal counterfeits, except that the issuers were found and most of the counterfeits were recovered. I never found out what the 2004-05 issues looked like, until this last year, and saw a 1988 counterfeit at the PNE one year. I could not even talk to anyone in the Vancouver PD about these counterfeits.
Valued Member
Canada
387 Posts
 Posted 01/07/2021  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Paisa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I took the counterfeit to my bank. For those who have seen the loonie countefeit thread, I had found a loonie as well.

I showed these to the tellers and even the branch manager and they humoured me. They wondered why anyone would even bother to counterfeit the toonies and the loonies. They told me that if they found it in a roll they would not even think of it being counterfeit.

Coins are not like banknotes. They generally come in rolls and tellers run into all kinds of problems with them (sometime there are foreign coins of much lower values). The branch staff generally do not bother with these things.

If they find a systemic issue then they will temporarily put some measure in place. I had one branch that put down my account number on the roll.

I would hope that Royal Canadian Mint is monitoring these types of forums and picking up on these things.

I applaud all the greatness in going to police and such. However if the the banks are not interested in it then how could you expect others to be interested in taking this up.

Of course banknotes are different than coins. The banks have technology at their disposal to verify them at the branch level.

Silver bullion is also different. I have been told that more and more now many dealers carry the techology to verify the authenticity.

Edited by Paisa
01/07/2021 10:12 pm
Valued Member
Canada
75 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2021  7:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cedargrove to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Found a 1996 today. That's three out of about 25 rolls, or 0.5%



Pillar of the Community
United States
7055 Posts
 Posted 01/08/2021  8:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow - sad. But I am not surprised after all these years of the coins being used to the exclusion of bills that this is happening. Its a perfect setup for counterfeiters:

Quote:
Banks will seize any counterfeits they come across, but they do not want to bother.

1. No one, evidently from the above posts, including the banks want to look for them or report them.


2. Anyone reporting them (according to Canadian law, has to forfeit the value of the coins. I understand the RCMP should not be expected to somehow come up with the money to replace a counterfeit.



Quote:
They don't seem to mind putting out lower quality fakes, so I'm sure they could produce a counterfeit security toonie that doesn't replicate the security features very well, but that's close enough.

3. Its simple to counterfeit coins since most people out there don;t even pay much attention to the coins they spend.


4. Counterfeiting, on a large scale, something seemingly not worth counterfeiting, is profitable.


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United States
97989 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2021  01:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Found a 1996 today. That's three out of about 25 rolls, or 0.5%
Very nice!
Pillar of the Community
Canada
623 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2021  7:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tfred to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I own a retail establishment, and I've reported counterfeit banknotes to the RCMP before, but not anymore. They really don't care, unless it can be proven that they were intentionally distributed. Once, they just told me to bring it to the station and fill out a report. I actually talked to an officer once, and he told me its not worth their time to prosecute some one who passes a counterfiret note unless it can be absolutely proven that it was passed intentionally. So I just keep them now for "educational" purposes. I'm a collector, and I use them to educate my staff.
As far as counterfeit coins go, as long as they are generally accepted by the public and retail establishments, then they are good for commerce. It sucks for the government, yes. But think about it, when was the last time you received an american nickel or dime in your change? Did you you refuse to accept it? Or did you think, "ill just spend it at the next place"? Using an american coin or a counterfeit canadian coin really is the same thing. Neither one are legal for conducting canadian commerce.
Anyways, just some random ramblings.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
536 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2021  7:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t_y to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks tfred.

This whole thread makes me rethink my "radical" approach to fakes and forgeries. If authorities don't care; if the monetary system is OK with it, who am I to fight them?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1811 Posts
 Posted 01/11/2021  3:19 pm  Show Profile   Check nickelsguy's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope the above 2 threads are about circulating and NOT numismatic coins......
Pillar of the Community
Canada
536 Posts
 Posted 01/11/2021  3:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t_y to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like there is no difference. Numismatic or circulation, coins, apparently, are not a concern to anyone but collectors.
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