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Identify Help: Two Tiny Silver Uniface Pfennige, Possibly Swiss 16th C.?

 
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 Posted 07/12/2020  4:30 pm Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I usually pride myself on being a fairly diligent researcher but after 2 days and 6+ hours of deep-crawling the Web in German and English and looking at lots of auction catalogues I must admit defeat and ask for the Community's help with these two coins!

These are uniface or "einseitiger" (one-sided) Pfennige from probably the late 15th-early 16th c. if I had to guess based on general design. Tiny little silver coins, 12mm or less.

My best guess so far is that these are Swiss and possibly Chur Bishopric issues based on the general design. I don't think they are German but I could be wrong there as well, maybe Bamberg but that is a stretch. The lion (?) doesn't have the Bohemian "two rings" tail I would be able to identify easily. (I'm assuming it's not a gryphon or an ibex.)

The first coin has a shield (arms) divided quarterly with what appears to be two lions (?) rampant in the upper left and lower right quarters respectively and a field of dots in the lower left quarter; encircled by a beaded border. It has a tiny hole in the middle.

The second coin has a beaded border with a single lion (?) rampant. The border has a diamond instead of a bead across from the lion's left rear paw.

If someone recognizes either of these two motifs and can help me nail down an issuer that would be great!





Have a good evening & stay safe!
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Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

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 Posted 07/12/2020  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@paralyse, maybe the second is a bear rather than a lion? Swiss cantons (Berne, St Ours, SOlothurn?), or Anhalt?

Edit: The Berne bear is not rampant, but St. Gallen is. But also why not that ibex of Chur? https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces131687.html
Edited by tdziemia
07/12/2020 6:06 pm
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 Posted 07/12/2020  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
2nd could be a bear -- I was going based off what appears to be a "tongue" in the upper left -- off to search St Gallen catalogues :) Thanks for the insight!

I thought about the possibility of a gryphon as well.
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 Posted 07/12/2020  6:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@tdz, exactly. That looks like a bear to me too. I was think Bern Canton, but don't see a match on numista.
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 Posted 07/12/2020  6:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@paralyse, are you sure it's not that Chur ibex? (see my edit upthread).

I think gryphons (Pomerania, Mecklenberg) tend to be crouching.
Edited by tdziemia
07/12/2020 6:09 pm
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 Posted 07/12/2020  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That was it!

2nd is St Gallen, HMZ 2-893b (with diamond)
Date is given as approximately 1566.

Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
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"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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 Posted 07/12/2020  6:09 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do think the 1st is Chur Bishopric but have not been able to find an exact match (yet.)
Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
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 Posted 07/12/2020  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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