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Post Your Contemporary Counterfeit Coppers!

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
724 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  03:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numis-Northerner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
. with a less than flattering bust of Alfred the Great.


With all due respect to the designer, whom I imagine has been deceased for the better part of 200 years, I think "Alfred the average" would have fit better.
Valued Member
Canada
78 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2020  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TerryT, funnily enough, I came across that exact same die variety when I was sent the coin in error after a recent eBay purchase. I share the seller's image below, as I have since returned the coin.



In Anton and Kesse's Forgotten Coins of the North American Colonies (1992), a 1774-dated farthing with the same error and of similar obverse design is listed as #107.

The coin shows similarities to the "Wedge Top Sevens" and "Topless Ordinals" families of Moore et al.'s recent attempt to catalogue counterfeits in "Contemporary Counterfeit Halfpenny & Farthing Families" (2018). Both those families are denoted as "summary families" and have not been completely researched; they show similarities, and are occasionally muled, with other families. They tentatively assign Anton-Kesse 107 to the "Topless Ordinals" family based on the original plate image.

I've only started working my way through the book. The authors definitely had (and have) their work cut out for them with the sheer complexity and volume of contemporary counterfeit varieties!

Tom and Numis-Northerner, it almost appears to me that the caricature-like image was done purposefully... for what reason I do not know.
Valued Member
Canada
468 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2020  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks so much for that info, Blargish. One of the few I can mark a number for.
Here are 2 thin 1773 farthings (not as reddish as photos). Left one is 3.65 gm., 22.5 mm.. Right one is 2.57 gm., 22 mm.. It looks like they actually circulated a lot.





While looking over my other ones, I think this one was made with the same dies as the left one above. It's heavier and thicker, 4.02gm., smaller in diameter, 22 mm. but has the same details.



Edited by TerryT
09/03/2020 6:37 pm
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Australia
867 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2020  11:42 pm  Show Profile   Check ryurazu's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ryurazu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i always wonder if people would have gotten angry at receiving money like this even back then? I know you be angry at getting fake silver, but when it fake copper I wonder if people would get angry when they traded it for like a bar of soap.
Valued Member
Canada
468 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2020  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A couple of 1775 halfpenny evasions: DELECTAT RUS / CLAUDUIS ROMANUS. First one, 5.95g., looks like it's brass. The other is 6.11g. and has extra metal on the shield - could be die clash - there are other areas. 2 numbers came with this one - Atkins 50, Cobwright C120/D0060, but there were ? after them so can't be sure.





Edited by TerryT
09/04/2020 7:44 pm
Valued Member
Canada
468 Posts
 Posted 09/09/2020  5:55 pm  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Two more 1773 farthings, maybe regal ? maybe not?

First one is 4.60 gms., a little banged up.




Second one is 4.46 gms. and has the 3 attached to the line above it. Fat 7's.



Valued Member
Canada
468 Posts
 Posted 09/17/2020  01:46 am  Show Profile   Check TerryT's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Am I the only one with these coins ? Oh well, I'll keep posting.

Here are 2 other skinny farthings, can't tell the dates, 2.30 and 2.05 grams. Second one has a die crack from the 7 upwards.





Edited by TerryT
09/17/2020 01:47 am
Valued Member
United States
60 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2020  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sjkrose to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a great interest in Contemporary Counterfeit Halfpennies and Farthings. I've been collecting both British and Irish for well over 12 years. Here are several early types!
Hope you enjoy them...



Valued Member
United States
60 Posts
 Posted 11/01/2020  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sjkrose to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Let me try posting a couple more... Enjoy!



Valued Member
United Kingdom
407 Posts
 Posted 11/02/2020  06:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zookeeperz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a few not many. One quite scarce apparently







Valued Member
Canada
78 Posts
 Posted 11/04/2020  11:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sjkrose, those are some stellar examples! I especially like the high grade 1752 George II Simian. Since I've gotten the book "Contemporary Counterfeit Halfpenny and Farthing Families" by Moore et al, I've slowly been trying to work my way through this underappreciated area of numismatics. (Your Simian is listed as die pair 14-52A in the George II Simian Family) I recently cherrypicked a similar one off of eBay and will post that when I get the chance.

That backwards 1771 (the AK-4 plate coin?) is also pretty amazing. That diesinker really blew it on a number of levels haha

zookeeperz, for the scarce one are you referring to your GREGORY III PON evasion? That's a neat one. It's listed as Atkins 355.
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9082 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2020  02:07 am  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have currently 40+ examples in my collection.

A few favorites.

"1774", fat letters, skinny 7's. Obverse off-center to the northeast. Rev. countermarked, distinctive rounded shield, no stop.




"1775", a whistling, fat-faced George with an oddball Britannia (look at her torso) with rev. stop.



"1775", double struck obverse & reverse, possibly struck over another type on a ground-down and recycled planchet. The double strike gives George a wonderful double chin. Linear, sloping forehead which merges with the nose. No rev. stop.




"1773", struck over an unknown type, most visible on the obverse right of the bust. Pronounced double chin, with fat jowls, a closed mouth and a broken-looking nose. A cramped, narrow date set very far left. R1 & E2 obverse are broken letters. Thick, deeply cut triangular denticles.

The reverse uses two different letter punches for A1 & A2 (look at the serifs and the thickness of the verticals) and no stop. The lower exergue line is heavily recut over a previous 3rd line (?) at its leftmost side in a very Escherian manner.


Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
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United States
9082 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2020  02:26 am  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"1773"

Double chin, sharply pointed and prominent nose with deep nostrils. Very crude letter punches with missing serifs, broken letters, and a deeply pointed V in GEORGIVS (cf. above examples with a more round-bottomed V.) Reverse uses an upside-down V punch for A2 ("Unbarred A" style) and the left lower serif of N2 is blundered and heavily recut. Evenly-spaced skinny date set left. Rev. stop.




"1730" evasion issue, George II type bust
Atkins 156, ex Tony Terranova coll.
"GEORGE RULES / BRITAINS ISLES", "IC" under bust




"1797" evasion issue, George II type bust
Atkins 297
"GLORIOVS PEL.LEW / BRITISH TARS."
Very poor quality planchet.



"1774" evasion issue, George III type bust
"IC" under bust and after rev. legend (wherein separated by a rosette)

"CLAUDUIS ROMANUS . IC . / DELECTAT RUS I*C"

Extremely crudely engraved and struck, even by the rather low standards of the type.


Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC
Specializing in 1932-1964 Washington quarters

"Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis
Edited by paralyse
11/05/2020 9:11 pm
Valued Member
United States
60 Posts
 Posted 11/05/2020  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sjkrose to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
blargish,
The backwards 1771 is the Anton-Kesse plate coin. This one was acquired via Stacks several years ago!
Here are a couple of high grade Irish...

Valued Member
Canada
78 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2020  5:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sjkrose, tough to find examples as nice as those!

paralyse, I'm especially a fan of the "British Tars" series. It has somewhat of a link to Canadian colonial numismatics through Atkins 271, among others, which are imitated by the Canadian Blacksmith/Evasion Wood 33 (Atkins 273).

Wood 33, Atkins 273. Interestingly, Atkins misinterpreted the legends, which read as follows:
Obv. G(E/L)ORIUVS·III·VIS·
Rev. BRITI·

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