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2021 Peace And Morgan Dollars!

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/30/2020  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add atticguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just a reminder: Starting next year, all of those collectors out there who have complete sets of either Morgan or Peace dollars will NO LONGER have complete sets.
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 Posted 10/01/2020  11:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just a reminder: Starting next year, all of those collectors out there who have complete sets of either Morgan or Peace dollars will NO LONGER have complete sets.
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513 Posts
 Posted 10/01/2020  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikev50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
silver rounds--bullion coins--that's it-- another us mint gimmick--i won't waste my money---
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 Posted 10/01/2020  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Darth Morgan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Just a reminder: Starting next year, all of those collectors out there who have complete sets of either Morgan or Peace dollars will NO LONGER have complete sets.


Those that have their sets housed in Dansco albums have nothing to fear. Dansco probably won't update that album, even though it makes sense to do so from a business standpoint.
Edited by Darth Morgan
10/01/2020 12:53 pm
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 Posted 10/01/2020  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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Those that have their sets housed in Dansco albums have nothing to fear. Dansco probably won't update that album, even though it makes sense to do so from a business standpoint.
This is true. Sad, but true.
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 Posted 10/06/2020  3:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Big-Kingdom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
(1) weigh 26.73 grams;

(2) have a diameter of 1.500 inches;

(3) contain not less than 90 percent silver; and

(4) have a reeded edge.

Therefore, it CAN'T be another bullion coin, unless you figure out how to take what is 90% silver, a diameter of 1.5 inches, and weighs 26.73 grams and Somehow do it in 1 oz fine silver and not change the size or the weight of it out of spec.

last I checked an 1 oz silver eagle weighs 31.103g which is more then the specified weight of 26.73g. You can't get around that no matter what you try it can't be one troy oz.

Also it's mandated it must have the year of minting or issuance, meaning, NOT restrikes, so that concern is unfounded.

it is not a commemorative. it is a legal tender U.S. coin, minted in honor of 100 years since the end of the Morgan dollar, and 100 years since the beginning of the Peace dollar.

theres precedent for it with Morgan dollars in 1921 as well as Peace dollars being stopped in 1928 and then started for 2 years in 1934 and 1935.

generally speaking the u.s. doesn't devalue coin or currency, it is just made obsolete, but never gets officially decommissioned and rendered valueless, I can't think of one coin or note that the u.s. has made that they have demonetized.


I completely disagree with the thought that it will be a commemorative coin, or lead to restrikes of old dates, or bullion coins.
No, if anything it may lead to new additions to both series, and that's the reality of it.






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 Posted 10/06/2020  5:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Therefore, it CAN'T be another bullion coin, unless you figure out how to take what is 90% silver, a diameter of 1.5 inches, and weighs 26.73 grams and Somehow do it in 1 oz fine silver and not change the size or the weight of it out of spec.

last I checked an 1 oz silver eagle weighs 31.103g which is more then the specified weight of 26.73g. You can't get around that no matter what you try it can't be one troy oz.

A couple of things:

- The proposed Morgan/Peace dollar legislation does not mandate a 90% silver planchet, it specifies that the coin must be at least 90% silver. As noted previously in the discussion, the Mint has recently been transitioning to 0.999 fine silver planchets for many of its new silver releases vs. the old standard - these new coins could easily follow this path and be struck on 0.999 fine silver planchets.

- A silver bullion coin does not need to be one troy ounce. It can be heavier or lighter. The silver Panda from China, for example, is now 30 grams (i.e. less than a troy ounce) but it is definitely considered a silver bullion coin. Also, there are many two-ounce, five-ounce, ten-ounce (and heavier) silver bullion coins being sold today.


Quote:
I can't think of one coin or note that the u.s. has made that they have demonetized.

In 1876, Public Resolution 17 of the 44th Congress removed the legal tender status from the Trade dollar (i.e., demonetized it). From that point forward, it was only to be minted to meet export demand for a silver trade coin. The Coinage Act of 1965 restored the status of the Trade dollar, but it was not considered legal tender in the US for almost 90 years.


Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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 Posted 10/06/2020  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Currently the Fr-1225 1900 $10,000 Gold Certificate are demonitized. One of the most interesting notes in the U.S. Large Size series is the Fr-1225, for two very good reasons - their high denomination, and the incredible story that goes along with each note.

"It was a cold night in Washington, D.C. in the heart of the Great Depression. Shortly after midnight, some of the night dwellers, scurrying around trying to find shelter on this winter night in December of 1935 began to hear sirens and to see flashing lights. A fire had broken out in the newly built Post Office and the worst of it seemed to be raging up on the sixth floor. Soon, holes were smashed through the walls, and fireman could be seen throwing boxes of paper and other items into the street. Imagine what went through the minds of the people below when they suddenly found clouds of $10,000 Gold Notes raining down on them. Some of the items were returned by honest citizens, but some vanished into the night. The new owners soon discovered they could not spend them because these notes were only used in official transactions between banks. Besides, the notes were almost always found cancelled with punch or rubber stamp cancels. Paper money collectors were certainly willing to buy the notes and put them away quietly, and when they sold them, they did so privately because Federal authorities occasionally confiscated these notes as stolen government property. As time went by, the authorities eventually realized there were more important issues to deal with, and today these $10,000 Gold Certificates are OK to own. "
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 Posted 10/08/2020  5:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CollegeBarbers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also it's mandated it must have the year of minting or issuance, meaning, NOT restrikes, so that concern is unfounded.

Yes, that is technically correct, but if they're not restrikes and they're not commemoratives (because they legally cannot be), that means Congress is resurrecting two coin series that ended 85 - 100 years ago so the Mint can produce NCLT. What's to stop them from doing the same for any other long-ended series? I just think it's a bad precedent.
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 Posted 10/09/2020  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

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What's to stop them from doing the same for any other long-ended series?
I would not have cried foul if they would have also announced a 2021 Ike for the 50th. There is still time.
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 Posted 11/11/2020  12:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Corbe to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can see it already:

Morgan dollar, mintage limit: 2021
Peace dollar, mintage limit: 2021

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 Posted 11/11/2020  07:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coincollector123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If they do that mintage these would be crazy and stupid to get especially with todays mint ordering website failures.
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 Posted 11/11/2020  08:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They should do 21 in 2021, 22 in 2022, 23 in 2022...

And then we have to fight like in the hunger games to buy one. 3000 enter only 21 get out!

And as final challenge we have to figure out the captcha of buses and only bikes keep showing up!
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 Posted 11/11/2020  08:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add msl2196 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The slippery slope comes from the fact that Congress, back in 1996, put measures in place to help ensure that collectors, beginning in 1999, would not be subject to the type of abuse they dealt with back in the mid-1930s when the number of new commemorative coin issues skyrocketed. Congress is now circumventing itself - and the wisdom of the limits - by passing commemorative coin bills that ignore the two commemorative coin limit imposed in 1996.



Quote:
What is trying to be prevented by the 1996 law is a year like 1936 that had roughly 20 commemorative coins minted. That is where a slippery slope leads back to. Think about that for a minute...really step back and think about it. The cost to the collector and the realistic underselling that would occur due to designs that just had little excitement (example Girls Scout design).


@commems @scopru

In my view, despite also producing some distinctly bad ones, the 1930's produced some of the best coins that the U.S. mint (or, for that matter, any mint) has ever produced. And I think that the more coins the mint is authorized to make (and the less that they are subject to congressional scrutiny), the more likely we are to get some really good designs once again in this decade--both because trying enough times is likely to result in at least something good, and also because profit motives incentivize the mint to hire good designers/hold contests/etc.

I also think that the definition of collector "abuse" depends heavily on what sort of collector one is. Personally, I collect not for the sake of getting full sets of things, but rather, in the hopes of buying something today that will later be a rarity/key date. If it were up to me, the mint would produce 100 different designs per year, for that is how natural rarities are made without having to resort to things like privy marks/reverse proofs/edge lettering and other gimmicks. Everyone thought coin X was ugly and they had to melt some down to produce the popular coin Y? Guess what, if you were smart/lucky enough to buy coin X, you're now sitting on a key issue. And coin Y also becomes a classic design. In my view, that's a win-win.

I'd also much rather have sets like:

2020 Coin A
2020 Coin B
2020 Coin C
2021 Coin A (or D)
2021 Coin B (or E)
2021 Coin C (or F)

than

2020 Coin A
2020 Coin A with privy mark
2020 Coin A with special edition edge lettering
2021 Coin A
2021 Coin A reverse proof
2021 Coin A minted in Guam,

or, if we're going to have variants like that, that they at least be consistent from year to year and not be different one-off variants each year.

If there is one design-related standard that I would enforce though, it's limiting the mint to one font per coin--which a particular pet peeve of mine with respect to the new silver eagles, which use two different fonts on the back.

As for as the Morgans/Peace dollars, I really hope that they are minted to the exact specification of the previous sets. That way, there isn't ambiguity as to whether or not they are part of the set--in the same way that there is still a bit of ambiguity as to whether the 2016 gold Mercury/Standing Liberty/Walking Liberty coins are actually part of the Mercury/Standing Liberty/Walking Liberty sets.

But like I said, I hope that in addition to this, the mint also makes 100 commemoratives next year, too--in the hopes that at least one or two will go down in history as classic designs, and that at least one or two will become organic rarities. Well, one can dream, anyway...
Edited by msl2196
11/11/2020 08:50 am
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 Posted 11/12/2020  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I can see it already:

Morgan dollar, mintage limit: 2021
Peace dollar, mintage limit: 2021
Oh no!
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