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"Bad Year" To Find High Graded Coins Or Questionable Top Pops

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 742Next Topic  
Valued Member

United States
134 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2020  2:40 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add shantiom to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
how do you know if the top pops are questionable versus knowing that specific year, for that mint, and denomination, are know to be poor for full strikes, heavy spotting, scratches, etc.? I ask because do collectors identify questionable top pops and get rolls to find a coin that is more likely to receive a better grade? For example, here is a 1968 LMC - D that is the top pop at 67+. With all the marks how this possible or is that year know for poor quality? Photos from PCGS, used for educational purposes.

Pillar of the Community
United States
814 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2020  3:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That you felt a need to magnify the hits answers your question. Small hits deduct less from the grade, but even so I agree the reverse doesn't look 67+.
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2020  3:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shantiom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i magnified for attention, rather than identification, on the obverse are those scratches in the right field minor, even with great eye appeal, that should not compensate if the TPG itself says this: well struck with minor imperfections visible without magnification. Those scratches would be minor, is it because it is part of the minting of the coin rather than a post mint scratch?
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United States
4256 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2020  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The marks in the obverse field are from die polishing, which shouldn't affect the grade.
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2020  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shantiom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Adam_E and @nick10--thank you! Taking your two observations, what distinguishes a mark from die polishing from a PMD mark or sratch. Is the former elevated above the field and the latter, incuse?
Edited by shantiom
10/24/2020 5:26 pm
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2020  6:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shantiom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok found this: http://goccf.com/t/332479#2841416

Is this one of many distinctions or the sole distinction: die polish marks are straight, whereas marks and nicks post mint are not, like hairlines.
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United States
814 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2020  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On an MS coin, hits usually have sharp edges becaue no wear has happened after those hits. Anything made on the coin by the die usually has slightly rounded edges because any super sharp edges have worn down by the striking of coins. If you happen to have some of the earliest coins of a polished die, the die polish lins can look as sharp as a hit. Unless you have superb vision, generally magnification is needed to distinguish one of these from another.
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United States
9405 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2020  3:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
one must keep in mind that MS70 is a perfect coin not MS65.

the grading standard for a 67 is as follows

MS67 - The original mint luster is complete and almost perfect. There are only three or four very small and unnoticeable contact marks. Overall, the coin has an extraordinary eye appeal that is hardly ever seen. A few minor hairlines can be found only with magnification.
Obverse: Virtually flawless with no distracting blemishes or marks on Lincoln's face or in the fields.
Reverse: Virtually flawless with no distracting marks on the words "ONE CENT" or in the fields.

in this case however, the obverse does appear to be 67 as the lines in the fields shown in your blowup are most likely die polishing. I think the reverse is short i'd call it 66. the obverse may have more weight in grading and the obverse eye appeal is exceptional so it is possible to pull a 67 but with those reverse marks I cant see it as top-pop 67+
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 10/25/2020  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shantiom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, @panzaldi and all who commented, is the PCGS branding standard the same as ANA or different!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
16683 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2020  6:51 pm  Show Profile   Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look at the coin from a distance, those marks are minor. PCGS is all about eye appeal (which this coin has) and luster. Those little marks are only worth 3 points so 70-3=67 final grade.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
Valued Member
United States
134 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2020  7:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add shantiom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, very appreciative of the knowledge here and efforts to educate. @BadThad, any reference books on grading, sound likes there is a mathematical approach to the technical grading portion---is eye appeal the "market condition. I purchased these two reference books recently and await their arrival: NCI Grading Guide by James Halperin (1986) - and A GUIDE TO THE GRADING OF United States coins - BY MARTIN BROWN & JOHN DUNN. My goal is to learn how the grading game has evolved, and also learn the technical grading foundations.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
16683 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2020  5:42 pm  Show Profile   Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess the books are good if you're talking about grading many types of coins and for grading from G to MS. However, I have never found them very useful as pretty much only a collector of Lincolns. This is especially true for the range of MS grades.

For me, the best way to learn was frequent trips to my LCS over many years. The owner(s) were extremely helpful and shuffling through perhaps thousands of PCGS and NGC slabbed and rejected coins. Oddly, the first box I ask for is the rejected TPG coins. There is a lot to learn by studying them and talking with the owner about them.

Just remember this for MS coins, it's all about eye appeal and luster. I've seen a lot forgiven if a coin looks nice and is shiny. It also helps to use the Chuck Daughtrey method for MS coins: Start at 70 and mentally subtract distractions. Understanding how many points to take off for each distraction is the hardest thing to learn but if you look at enough graded coins, you'll get the hang of it.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
Edited by BadThad
10/27/2020 5:45 pm
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