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Mexico Guanajuato 1833 Gojm 8 Reales - All CC?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 2 / Views: 213Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

United States
1568 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2021  2:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Swamperbob and I briefly discussed a 1833 GoJM 8 Reales specimen (assayer JM is a listed variety, rare and much more expensive as compared to the common MJ assayer for that year) a number of years back:
http://goccf.com/t/143938

One popped up recently on eBay. In looking at that piece, other auction archive examples, and going back to that thread from years ago... I think that 1833 GoJM issue might, in its entirety, be a contemporary counterfeit - or at least a "back room of the mint" debased issue using official punches.

Long story short - and we can discuss this in more detail - every example of what is called/sold as a "genuine" 1833 GoJM 8R that I see is from the same die pairing... and most/all of the more worn examples appear to have revealed themselves to be debased examples.

Just a quick few points:

-- All of these 1833 GoJM examples purported to be "regal", genuine pieces - again, seemingly all from the same die pairing - are NOT a match to the one 1833 GoJM 8R shown in Riddell

-- These "genuine" 1833 GoJM pieces DO, however - as I think Bob alluded to in the old thread linked above - appear to be a perfect reverse die match to Riddell 304, a rather commonly seen 1833 GoMJ debased issue.

Bob, would love to hear your observations on this...


Examples of the 1833 GoJM "genuine" type:




Examples of Riddell 304, 1833 GoMJ, which look to be a reverse die match to GoJM shown above:
Edited by realeswatcher
01/10/2021 3:52 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1568 Posts
 Posted 01/10/2021  3:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
an UNC example of an 1833 GoJM... again, same dies... yet nice, frosty die-struck surface (regal-looking). Often these only reveal themselves after some wear has occurred...
Pillar of the Community
United States
5074 Posts
 Posted 01/20/2021  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am sorry that I missed this post.

I have long suspected the variety was not genuine, but I have not had the opportunity to view any of them in hand.

I will need time to reflect on this and express an opinion.

My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon http://ccfgo.com/TheUnrealReales or from me directly if you want it signed.
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