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Possible Brockage On Both Sides Of Lincoln Shield Cent, Or Vice?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 380Next Topic  
New Member
United States
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 Posted 02/08/2021  3:47 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Joseppi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi everyone, I'm new and I found a really neat coin sweeping up the drive through where I work, I came across a penny that had a mirror image of the back side of a Lincoln penny...over the front of Lincolns face and exactly opposite of the first strike on the reverse back of the penny, at first I just though someone may have done that , so to back that theory up....i honestly tried to repeat such a theoretical thought, but could not imprint with such percission and without damaging the collar or edges of the collar, not to mention getting both images on front and back without pancaking the c in was not even a question, so I did try to answer my own thoughts o. This before I wasted anyone's time and looked like an idiot for even thinking I'd be that lucky,, lol, here are some pictures I took, thankyou all for your one and help Click to see a Larger Image!






*** Edited by Staff - Fixed images ***
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United States
4664 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2021  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your pictures aren't showing up for me.

If I'm correct in reading that you can see the normal obverse design under the mirrored reverse, that sounds like a vise job to me. A brockage wouldn't have any evidence of the obverse design unless struck through an extremely late-stage die cap.



Edit: Thanks for fixing the pictures, mods.
Definitely a vise job. It appears to have been squeezed between two other coins.
Edited by Numisma
02/08/2021 4:28 pm
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 Posted 02/08/2021  4:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 5+ Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 02/08/2021  5:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the Community!

Your post was moved to the appropriate forum for the proper attention.
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United States
5405 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2021  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Vice job. Keep searching.

to the CCF!

ša va bien aller

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United States
2 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2021  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Joseppi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok I said the same thing , but how does that explain in the pic I have circled why the ONE is showing the proper way as the original ONE, it's above the ONE, also wouldn't a vice have done some damage placing the backside of the coin pressed into both sides of the coin, annnnnd why or how is the U in United almost directly on top of one another, there's no vice damage at all?
If someone can show me an exact vice job ill believe i, I've even attempted to mock this coin and it's just not possible
I do understand that's the easiest explanation, bus anyone ever tried to vice or place an imprint on a coin, no matter what, there's going to be vice marks, or the clampage will merely destroy the collar, with that in mind, how does one press the image into the coin without pressing down on the collar, especially both sides of the coin? I'm just not believing a vice could do that, and a coin dealer I took the coin to aid the same thing, I think instead of writing this off as some vice job based off of first glance, then explaining the ONE in one cent was done by a vice, it's spelled the same way,
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 Posted 02/08/2021  7:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bobby131313 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you put a coin on either side of it, of course there would be no vice damage, it will never touch the middle coin.

If you believe it's real send it off to PCGS.
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 Posted 02/08/2021  7:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sounds like an experiment in the making.. I'll give it an attempt to reproduce this effect..
Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on
"Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." -Benjamin Franklin
My Dansco 7070 type set coin count: 31/76
My Dansco 8176 Eisenhower set coin count: 36/36
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 Posted 02/08/2021  8:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now you actually have drawn my attention to the fact that the underlying design doesn't show much damage. Is it possible that it was glued to the other coins and the hardened glue was retained? Just an idea.

I also thought of another reason it can't be a double brockage. I'm not even sure whether those are known to exist, but I doubt it. Theoretically, a double brockage would have to be struck between two die caps. The first one, which I'll say is on the obverse die for the sake of argument, is a regular die cap with the normal reverse design on the exposed side. This side is what leaves the mirrored reverse on brockages it produces. The second die cap, on the reverse die, is struck by the first die cap. This cap has the mirrored reverse on the exposed side, essentially the same as the die on which it rests. Coins struck between the two would have a mirrored reverse (image transfer: rev die > obv die cap > coin) on one side and a "normal" but probably distorted reverse (image transfer: rev die > obv die cap > rev die cap > coin) on the other. There would be no underlying design on either side.
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 Posted 02/08/2021  9:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dennman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The ONE is not the same as the original ONE.The N is not right and neither is the T in CENT.The vise job explanation is correct.
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 Posted 02/08/2021  10:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Adam_E to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, vice job.

The ONE is in fact reversed, if you look at the "N" you'll see it starts from the top, not from the bottom. What's tripping you up is that the ONE looks similar to itself when it's reversed and flipped upside down, the only discrepancy is the N, the E and O would look correct from that perspective.
Edited by Adam_E
02/08/2021 10:14 pm
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United States
161 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2021  04:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hybrid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What you are seeing is the bottom side of the ONE reversed. I agree with the others a vice job
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 Posted 02/10/2021  11:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The transfered devices to the coin will be mirrored. If they were double struck they would not be mirrored.


Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
02/10/2021 11:18 am
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