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Crypto Pushing Out Metals As Safe Haven?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
549 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2021  10:24 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jskirwin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Wondering what people think of the popularity of crypto-currencies like Bitcoin and Etherium. While their values have skyrocketed, the metals have languished by comparison.

Is it possible that these currencies have pushed metals to the margins as safe havens during times of crisis/inflation?

Just curious to what others are thinking.
Valued Member
United States
215 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2021  6:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add winterfell to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that they are having some impact right now, but I don't think long term they will push out metals at all. The price shot up due to Paypal/Robinhood allowing people to easily bet on the price of bitcoin and the other cryptos, not because cryptos are actually becoming widely used for anything. I know some people who are buying on Robinhood because they see it as easy money right now, but they don't actually believe in bitcoin or plan to ever use it. So while there is a speculative bubble with crypto happening and unregulated market manipulation, there are many reasons that the cryptos won't retain value (in my opinion) over the long term, including the extremely low barrier to entry to make new cryptocurrencies, the huge amount of pollution and energy required not only to mine but to process transactions, the high cost of actually using the bitcoin to purchase something making it impractical(the average cost of a single transaction being around $5 for bitcoin currently), and so on. The single biggest risk for crypto though is that if the government decides to regulate crypto at all, prices will plunge. India is already considering banning private crypto and make its own digital currency.The fact that foreign governments/nationals that are adversaries of the US are heavily pursuing mining of bitcoin (N. Korea, Iran,Russia, China), that criminal activity is so easily facilitated with crypto, and that it is so easily pumped and manipulated right now, including by the world's richest man Elon Musk, all leads me to think that the government will be stepping in to regulate cryptos and reduce any threats they pose.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
18384 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2021  6:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Do all bullion dealers accept cryptocurrency as payment? (I don't know)

The the extent of my knowledge, it seems to me that cryptocurrencies have never been leglislated into Law by any act of Parliament anywhere in the World; they are just accepted on trust by parties that are unknown to each other.

On the other hand, many countries around the World are considering to issue their own legally recognized cryptocurrency. The U.S. Government has already done this.

Currently, Bitcoin is the subject of both involuntary and deliberate speculation, but bullion prices are still expressed in terms U.S. Dollar values but such organizations as Kitco.
Like Bitcoin, both the U.S. Dollar and bullion values are floating, but Bitcoin values in terms of U.S. Dollars seem to be skyrocketing independently of commodity values generally. When will the bubble burst?
Pillar of the Community
United States
2254 Posts
 Posted 02/15/2021  1:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add thq to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They're still speculative vehicles IMO. When, and if, the values stabilize is important if they're ever to be functional as currencies.

I also wonder whether they'll become as obsolete as 5-1/4" floppy discs. And how soon they'll be counterfeited. Not a matter of if, just when.

"Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
Edited by thq
02/15/2021 1:06 pm
New Member
United States
48 Posts
 Posted 02/22/2021  3:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add glenmorenee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Probably the most non-negotiable requirement of PM investors is physical possession.

How would bitcoin et al work with extended blackouts?
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Canada
68 Posts
 Posted 02/23/2021  07:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sbr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with "winterfell" completely a utube I saw the other day showed a chart of gold and bitcoin together and they were acting inversely . If Musk had not purchased 1.5 billion of bitcoin where would it be priced now. This morning bitcoin looks to open down 15% . I have seen a deluge of utubes promoting copper silver nickel gold and platinum.Not only are they talking about owning physical but buying mining and exploration companies. When I first started investing a long time ago resource funds had a great 4 year run ending up gaining 200 to 500 % then they were flat for about 20 to 30 years.All commodities are breaking out now including grains , lumber and uranium .I think and hope we are entering a resource supercycle again. I have seen analysts I have not seen in 20 years showing up on utube all talking precious metals. Just my opinion but I think as well bitcoin will fade and metals are going to have a great run.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
22024 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2021  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fed's will destroy cryptos if they become too large a threat to the dollar.

With physical metal you hold it, no third party risk.
New Member
United States
1 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2021  06:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add roothog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As someone who is pro-gold/silver & pro-Bitcoin, I see the PMs & Bitcoin as complementary assets to one another rather than competing. It's crazy there is even this debate given the global size of all stores of value is roughly $400 trillion. Bitcoin is just under $1 trillion in total value, gold is $10 trillion (not really sure what silver's total market value is).

The two of them together are a combined maybe $13-$14 trillion (with silver) compared to the other $387 trillion in overpriced equities, bonds, real estate, art, etc. So around 3.5% of all the stores of value in the world are in these two assets, & both the BTC crowd & Gold crowd piss & moan with one another rather than targeting the other 96.5%. Gold & Silver would still be manipulated with or without Bitcoin, we all saw it in 2011.

Bitcoin isn't going to replace gold, because governments own it & need it. The BTC people who think governments are going away are way too crazy. They're going to exist, but in a different form than they do now after we get through the hyperinflation heading our way.

I think precious metals people should remember that gold is a check on centralized power, but the past 150 years or so banks & governments have figured out a workaround via fixing the real world metal prices. They then fixed it via flooding the COMEX with endless paper claims. So they have beaten us all after gold starting breaking through in the 1970s. Given this history, we should all look at BTC as a 2nd layer of checking centralized power.

Everyone who gets giddy at the government trying to stop cryptos really should think bigger. First off, the government cannot stop Bitcoin. All you need is a computer to hook into the network, and the experiment of government trying to close the gates to the network only hurt that government. In Nigeria they're trying to prevent people from holding Bitcoin & its already failing because the local price of Bitcoin just rises. Not everyone everywhere has access to gold, and it's far easier for the government to close the liquidity of gold than it is to Bitcoin.

The government can set the price of gold if they really want, they've done it before. They cannot set the price of Bitcoin though, it will force governments to behave themselves, something that gold isn't able to do independently. There's still an ocean of overpriced garbage these two asset classes are going to eat through before its all said & done.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1056 Posts
 Posted 03/01/2021  3:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GMS5 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 03/30/2021  7:56 pm  Show Profile   Check silverstash119's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add silverstash119 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Like anything, diversification is key, and I can't deny that there is money to be made in cryptocurrency. I have money in Gold, silver, 401k, Roth IRA, and yes even cryptocurrency... I don't necessarily want to use crypto as a currency... I prefer tangible assets that don't live on a flash drive, but I don't want to miss an opportunity either... I just won't invest more than I'm willing to lose. So far I'm negative $120, so not going well
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United States
427 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  02:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrpapageorgio to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Everyone who gets giddy at the government trying to stop cryptos really should think bigger. First off, the government cannot stop Bitcoin. All you need is a computer to hook into the network, and the experiment of government trying to close the gates to the network only hurt that government. In Nigeria they're trying to prevent people from holding Bitcoin & its already failing because the local price of Bitcoin just rises. Not everyone everywhere has access to gold, and it's far easier for the government to close the liquidity of gold than it is to Bitcoin.


All it takes is one hack/exploit of the network for it to come crashing down. Don't think governments aren't trying to find one.


Notwithstanding my pessimistic long term view of Bitcoin, I do think it is hurting precious metals and is crowding out that same money that may otherwise be buying gold.

Bitcoin is much easier to buy these days than gold. I can go on my iPhone app and buy as much as I want with a few taps in Paypal or Robinhood or Cash App. Now there are fundamental differences in how you own Bitcoin between the apps, but that's another discussion. Good luck these days walking into a lcs and buying a gold coin for even close to spot; let alone if they have inventory (my local only had 1 gold buffalo and 1 AGE last I checked).

Sure I can buy the paper version of gold on the stock apps, but it's still much more complicated these days than buying Bitcoin with how easy apps like Robinhood and Cash App have made buying Bitcoin.

Edited by mrpapageorgio
03/31/2021 02:25 am
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 Posted 03/31/2021  02:18 am  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
And how soon they'll be counterfeited. Not a matter of if, just when.


You uhh... can't counterfeit a bitcoin, or any other blockchain crypto.
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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 03/31/2021  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suppose the main utility of Bitcoin is its anonymity and transactability across borders. For example, it is much easier for a drugs cartel to make payments in Bitcoins then walk around with a suitcase full of dollars or gold bars.

Then again, we should be mindful of how the rest of the world is looking at these things, not just through Western eyes.
For instance, gold is still highly regarded in Asia as a store of wealth among other things, even though many in the West may dismiss it as a useless brick. In the end however, three billion people in Asia will dictate what happens to it, not 600 million apathetic Westerners.
Edited by NumisEd
03/31/2021 8:49 pm
Pillar of the Community
Australia
989 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2021  9:47 pm  Show Profile   Check ryurazu's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add ryurazu to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
cryptocurrency can be very secure if you know what your doing just like holding gold. however crypto doesn't replace gold or precious metals or any other metal for that fact. cryptography is a new and expanding market place.
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 Posted 04/06/2021  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coin rejector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@IndianGoldEagle.... "Fed's will destroy cryptos if they become too large a threat to the dollar." I absolutely agree w/ your comment.

"Bitcoin could become 'outlawed the way gold was outlawed' in 1934, speculates Bridgewater's Dalio"....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/sav.../ar-BB1eVh33
Edited by coin rejector
04/06/2021 3:58 pm
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