Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

1896 1 Cent Which Is A Far?

Next Page | Last 15 Replies
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 938Next Topic
Page: of 2
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1273 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2021  4:05 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Which, IF ANY of these 6 1896 Cents, is a far 6?
Charlton says there are different dies used for that year and the 9 and 6 were often hand punched. so some variations are a given.
what about other markers?
Is there one that is considered THE exact issue sample?
these images were taken with the exact same camera settings/ values like distance focus + exposure
this, as far as I am aware of, has nothing to do with the obverse side.
or, does it?
am very curious about what everyone has to say.
there is no underlying question here. And I am aware that this coin has been discussed before.
so, any input is much appreciated.

Pillar of the Community
Canada
1688 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2021  6:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is one I had graded by PCGS as a 1896 far 6 with a die crack on the obverse, I have 3 like it and 3 without the obverse die crack. I believe ICCS graded one with a Reverse die crack years ago.


Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
3505 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2021  7:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Way back when, on the old CCRS site, and in its infancy this topic first came up. Rick Simpson was the ONA VP and a member of the site. We went through him to Bill Cross at Charlton to try to get the variety listed in Charlton. Since Brian Cornwell at ICCS had close ties with Bill Cross and Rick wrote the "Trends" at that time, we got the first 1896 "far 6" recognized. This would have been around 2001 or so. There was a small (5-6 person) cadre of serious Vicky variety collectors and we all investigated this variety thoroughly and daily/weekly posted our new findings for applicable markers. It was discussed constantly for a year or two. We found that there was no real 1896 "far 6", and we faced the same problem that Griffin did when he and Zoell first discovered it in the 60's-70's with lots of different spacings. Since the 6 was hand-punched into each die, you had "near", "close", "very near","far", "very far", "far,far" and other different spacings in between in addition to the vertical offset and any rotation..

We collectively decided that the true "far 6" would be the one that we all agreed was far, far, high, and slightly rotated CW. Since, to be accepted as a true variety, any coin had to meet all of the specifics, ICCS stopped certing them and Charlton quit listing them, but Trends continued to list it. With 2 million minted and, say, 80-100,000 strikes per die, you had at least 20 or more different spacings of the 9 and the 6. The initial coin that ICCS cert'd and was the true "spec" coin, it is the one that is listed on p 341 of the 2011 Charlton for the Vicky Cent varieties, but we didn't call it a "far 6" because every dealer and seller called anything of 1896 was a far 6. The initial cert'd coin is far, canted, high and has a D/C before the A in Canada. There are all kinds of "kinda far", "somewhat far", etcc, so don't put anything on your holders. Just remember that a guy that wasn't too good with a hammer and punch didn't have a good handle on correct spacing.
Moderator
Learn More...
Canada
9596 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2021  7:28 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Which, IF ANY of these 6 1896 Cents, is a far 6?


You don't give us much to work with here. As Okie says, there are other markers on the coins to define the desirable ones.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1688 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2021  7:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is a hard call to identify what a 1896 far 6 is like Okie mentioned there are many that could be one. What I do is try to find the ones that the 6 looks the farthest to the right as I can find. The one I posted satisfies me as being a far 6 of some type and the obverse die crack gives me a marker for that one. I have others with no die cracks but look like a far 6.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1008 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2021  8:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are two or three dies that PCGS will certify as a far 6. Essentially all of them are such that an imaginary line from the edge of the center serif of the E in ONE running along the left serif of the T in Cent will cut the 6 of the date nearly in half.
Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1547 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2021  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is what I have re information

Quote:
There are 3 easily identifiable 1896 Far 6 types.

1. 6 o'clock die crack on reverse
2. Die crack in DEI
3. Die cracks in V Victoria and C Canada
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2081 Posts
 Posted 02/24/2021  10:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rocky to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i have matched 1. that where I stopped. I know the number that matches papeldog coin. I never checked the other ones. I will check them
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
3505 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  08:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
fourmack ... Where did you get that information regarding the 3 "easily identifiable types? I've been involved in ID'ing the far 6's for 25 years and have looked at hundreds, if not thousands of the 1896's. I've never seen your "quote" before as far as I know. I quit doing research on them after both Charlton and ICCS said that they would quit cert'ing or recognizing them.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1688 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
fourmack, this is the first time I've seen your marker list and can confirm 2 of your list the die crack you mention at 6:00 o'clock on the Reverse is the only one I don't have, and I have 1 with the crack in DEI, and a few of the one I posted the picture of.

You must have been studding the 1896 down under
Edited by papeldog
02/25/2021 08:36 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1273 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You don't give us much to work with here. As Okie says, there are other markers on the coins to define the desirable ones.


SPP: my question was actually very simple and obviously asked before any detailed replies were offered.

I had no idea it was going into a ton of "technical" aspects and die cracks etc. Otherwise, I would have posted every one of the coins individually, both sides.
Was looking for a way to show all 6'es in the date together, as, again, the question was about identifying a possible FAR 6 in the image. It is obvious now that there is a lot more to it than just distance to the 9.
Thanks everyone for some great information.
Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
1547 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  1:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fourmack to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
fourmack ... Where did you get that information regarding the 3 "easily identifiable types?


Good question Okie?
I really don't know as its been attached to 1 of my 1896's for 7 years so it must have come from the old copper coin site.
Cheers Don

Vickies cents and GB Farthings nut.
"Old" is a figure of speech and nothing more
Moderator
Learn More...
Canada
9596 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
SPP: my question was actually very simple and obviously asked before any detailed replies were offered.


Your question was simple, your image was not. There are literally thousands of posts on this site reminding people to post photos of their entire coin(s), both sides. Yours was no exception.


Quote:
There are two or three dies that PCGS will certify as a far 6. Essentially all of them are such that an imaginary line from the edge of the center serif of the E in ONE running along the left serif of the T in Cent will cut the 6 of the date nearly in half


This is the main criteria, which some of your photo collage does not show.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

My eBay store
Pillar of the Community
United States
1008 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add bosox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are six that give you an idea of what PCGS will certify. I was surprised to see the 65 Brown and I think they made a mistake on that one.

https://www.PCGS.com/valueview/vict...568816&h=pop

https://www.PCGS.com/valueview/vict...568817&h=pop
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
3505 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  4:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bosox .. yes, the 65 Brown that you attached is not, in my opinion, a "far 6. It is one of the plethora of coins that has a tad wider space between the 9 & 6 and the 8 & 9., but not wide enough or high enough. It is for this exact reason that ICCS quit certifying far 6's because it became the "eye of the beholder" rather than specifics that came to dictate what was put on the holder. That's like saying that there are a multitude of 1859's that can be called "far 9's". I also think that there is no other marker for the far 6 that can be specified. The initial certification by ICCS was a coin that had a D/C between the D & A of Canada (a heavy one), but had nothing to do with the variety itself. PCGS can do and say what they want, but the initial find and the more than a year discussion on what could be called a "far 6" and what wasn't had specifics and dictates of the width of the spacing, the height of the 6 and the clockwise rotation or canting to the right. You should remember this and all the surrounding CCRS discussions as well as I do, bosox. And then we all celebrated when Brian C from ICCS actually certid it for our friend from Hamilton (who no longer collects BTW). I was there when we passed all the info to Rick Simpson from the ONA , Bill Cross from Charlton, and Brian from ICCS. At the time Rick S was a major dealer and ICCS customer.
Edited by okiecoiner
02/25/2021 4:14 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
3505 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  4:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
fourmack ... The quote didn't come from the old CanadianCopperCoin site. I was the sole moderator of that site and answered over 50% of the questions on varieties. The other experts on the site were Dan in CL, bosox, Zonad and papeldog. It was a short-lived site (maybe a year or two, maybe more) but got eaten with spam and the owner didn't renew the registered name or fees. Poof! and it was gone and couldn't be rescued. A have some problem with the 3 "types" that you put down. It sounds like someone had some to sell and invented ID markers to increase his/her profits. I can think of only one person who would put something like that down on a coin site and he has been removed from any number of sites. He lives out West (not West Coast) and his name/monikor started with a "D".
Edited by okiecoiner
02/25/2021 4:24 pm
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 24 / Views: 938Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.





Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2021 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2021 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.81 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05