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Just A Funny German Coin Question

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United States
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 Posted 02/24/2021  9:04 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mrwhatisit to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am wondering why the German Deutsche Marks from 1950, 1954-1960s are so incredibly valuable, like 10s of dollars for an XF condition to several hundred for the keys like 1954-G (in the Krause catalog conjoined with NGCcoin.com world). It seems as if a very good foreign coin website (coinquest) seems to reason that all of these are worth face value, meaning little collector value.
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United States
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 Posted 02/24/2021  11:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add realeswatcher to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Krause (the NGC guide is derived directly from Krause) has shown (in)famously bloated prices for the early West Germany issues for many years now. Krause often relied on acknowledged experts in particular types/countries for pricing guidance (and it typically takes quite an effort/outcry to get prices/info changed once in there)... whoever provided input for West German issues in particular threw some wishful thinking in there.

However, truly high grade examples (really looking at AU and above more than just XF) of the lowest mintage dates certainly are worth premiums. I don't believe many UNCs were stashed away in the difficult post-war years.

I don't know exactly what the standard guidebook/catalog is for these issues in Germany - that would be a much better source. Certainly, though, reviewing German and other European auction results for given dates/mintmarks would give the most current and accurate on-the-ground info.


Quote:
very good foreign coin website (coinquest)

Eh...
Valued Member
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 Posted 02/25/2021  02:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add norantyki to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed generally with the above... and I'll add I have yet to encounter a 'very good foreign coin website.' The coinage, as well as the stamps of early West Germany were subject to a huge speculative bubble in the 1980s pushed by a strong market as well as a cartel of dealers who 'boosted' at public auction), and in neither field are the catalog values accurate - as was mentioned, editors are always reluctant to revise prices downward.

This being said, very high grade examples (I would push the bar to MS-64+) always find a ready market, and some are actually underrated.
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United States
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 Posted 02/25/2021  02:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add da2021 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is my 10 Pfennig coin. Looks good to me.



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United Kingdom
8517 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  04:33 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with realeswatcher. It's not hard to find West German coins of the 1950s and 1960s in EF condition in Britain - they were brought back by British troops serving out there or by holidaymakers. It's probably harder to find decent specimens from 1971-8, as most West German coins of that era seem to be very weakly struck.

Curiously, Krause greatly undervalues most French coins from the same period, often pricing coins at $1.50 or $2.00 that a Parisian coin dealer would charge ten times that amount for.
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 Posted 02/25/2021  06:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have often wondered about that.
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 Posted 02/25/2021  09:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AGree with the very good summary by @realeswatcher and others.

I've sold some lightly circulated German marks from that time period, and was uniformly unimpressed with the prices they fetched, based on what I saw in Krause/NGC (though I did my research on eBay and was prepared).

You can see here that even the 1954-G is not worth what it says in Krause/NGC in a grade below MS: https://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotv...351ae91ab359

However, nice MS specimens and proofs with no defects can hit the Krause values: https://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotv...5c3ffeb32ea0.

Caveat venditor.


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Australia
641 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  2:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

(though I did my research on eBay and was prepared)

Yup, the Sold Listings on EBay is my goto area for coin pricing.
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United States
343 Posts
 Posted 02/25/2021  3:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwhatisit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I use a number of foreign coin websites to pin down what I am exactly looking for, so coinquest.com has been quite good to me so far, with a few exceptions like the one I mentioned above.
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 Posted 02/26/2021  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Indeed ...

From coinquest:
BETTER DATES (Catalog values beloe are for well preserved coins):
1954D: $100
1954F: $200
1954G: $450
1955D: $125
1955G: $400
1957G: $145
1957J: $100
1958G: $135


"Beloe" is a photo of what might (or not) be considered a well-preserved 1958G. Who would like to guess the selling price?


Edited by tdziemia
02/26/2021 10:52 pm
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 Posted 02/26/2021  11:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CMattB2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I honestly didn't know there was a strong market for these. I see them in 10c bins all the time
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 Posted 02/27/2021  02:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The core difference in the value of deutschmarks vs many other pre-Euro coinages (such as the French franc) is that German coins remain exchangeable for euros, at the original exchange rate, indefinitely. So a 5DM mark coin is still worth 2.55 euros (US$3.08 at current rates) from the Bundesbank, no matter what condition it's in. A French 10 franc coin is scrap metal, unless a collector wants to pay more for it, and most colelctors who want one already have one, so very low demand.

This, of course, doesn't explain the ridiculously high pricing for German coins given in Krause/NGC. Demand for German coins is high, thanks to a larger-than-usual proportion of the population being coin collectors, but not that high.

I will concur with the opinion that "no cataloguer wants to publish the bad news that prices have gone down". There seems to be a general presumption that publishers who do this will see their books boycotted. I've seen this in the Australian series, particularly with banknotes; the actual sell prices of rare notes has collapsed, taking several big-name banknote dealers with it, but the catalogues are still in cloudcuckooland.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 02/27/2021  09:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I honestly didn't know there was a strong market for these. I see them in 10c bins all the time


That's part of the discussion here.
- There is NO market for the circulated ones you find in the 10c bin.
- There IS a market for some dates in grades of AU and higher (highly unlikely to be found in 10c bins).
- And for some year/mint/grade combinatioins there is misleading info in Krause which can lead collectors to think the market is stronger than it really is






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United States
271 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2021  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Check Diy89Nurm7's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Diy89Nurm7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Curious about this issue for other German and world coins in general. I will look at the world price guide at NGCcoins.com
and ucoins.net (I am allowed to mention this site?).

NGC says $2.50 in F, $8 in VF, $135 in XF and on up the exponential slope.

Meanwhile, the other site says $3.29 without a true grade reference.

Hopefully NGC is reliable....

Stay well,
Diy89Nurm7
Stay well,
Diy89Nurm7
Valued Member
United States
343 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2021  8:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwhatisit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, all these responses are fascinating me to no end here. Yeah, I was wondering about what others thought about the Krause catalog.
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Luxembourg
580 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2021  07:25 am  Show Profile   Check maudry's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add maudry to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
German Marks coins had a very high demand in the late 1990s and prices went to the moon until the beginning of the euro where interest dropped as people discovered there were plenty of coins sleeping in their cupboards and hardly anything was rare.
Krause was following the first move but completely missed the second one.
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