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Question About EAC Grades

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 7 / Views: 387Next Topic  
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 Posted 03/03/2021  4:01 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
In this HA auction catalog it references NGC and EAC grades. Does this mean EAC examined the coin and assigned a grade or is HA assigning it based on some type of standards? If the former, does any documentation exist for coins that reference an EAC grade? Here is an excerpt from the HA catalog I am referencing from Auction #390 from 2006. BTW, I own the coin on the right, but it is now in a PCGS PF-63 BN holder purchased last year at a SB auction claiming it is an B-1, C-1(which it is) with a R-7 rarity as a proof. The listing from HA claims this die pair was not used for the proofs, so obviously PCGS disagrees.




Edited by jimbucks
03/03/2021 4:15 pm
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 Posted 03/03/2021  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Check Collects82's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Collects82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think EAC has a grading service. But the EAC crowd does have their own nitpicky grading that is more conservative than the scale the TGPs tend to use. I think HA is trying to be helpful by showing the the slabbed grade and their opinion on the EAC grade.

Anyone is welcome to correct me about EAC!
My hoard of '82s is up to 204! 218 BC x 1, 118 BC x 3, 18 BC x 1, 82 x 1, 182 x 1, 282 x 2, 382 x 1, 582 x 2, 682 x 1, 782 x 2, 882 x 1, 982 x 4, 1082 x 1 1182 x 8, 1282 x 2, 1382 x 1, 1482 x 5, 1582 x 13, 1682 x 15, 1782 x 57, 1882 x 49, 1982 x 33
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 Posted 03/03/2021  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No EAC does not have a grading service. They grade on a whole other level. it's best described in the book they but out a few years ago.






It's generally a lot lower grade than any TPG marks possibly by a multitude of grades, I've seen MS64 coins the EAC call VF or EF. They concentrate on issues older copper coinage generally is prone to have, porosity, poor planchets, and other defects as well as environmental issues. Then they work up the year of the coin known striking characteristics, and usually present a split grade or net grade like:

20/25 with light porosity and pitting from corrosion NET Grade F12.

I really simplifying it, and I'm no expert, though I've been working on understanding the EAC grades for almost 6 years or so now. It's not easy, the top EAC graders are probably Denis Loring, Mark Borckardt, Bill Noyes, Jack Robinson, Bob Grellman to name a few. Some of those have produced literature on grading or pricing and how it pertains to condition in the marketplace. My friend Mark is the Senior Auction writer and researcher for Heritage, I've learned a lot from him. His grades are usually spot on in most of the Heritage catalogs he has worked on, like the Walter Husak Collection, The Jules Reiver Sales, The Partick Sales, The Newman Sales, Boka Large Cents, Ellsworth Half Cents, to list a few of my favorites. Most of those sales are all available on the Newman Numismatic Portal if you want to browse the catalogs.

Here is a page with some good videos on grading from the EAC convention in 2013:

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/multi...isplayAmt=50

Specifically:
Philosophy of Grading Early Copper
How to Grade Half Cents
EAC Copper Grading Guidelines Book Project
Ask Anything You Ever Wanted to Know About CQR
How Old-Time Coin Dealers Graded Their Cents


This one by Ron Shintaku is a really good introduction on EAC grading, from the 2016 ANA Convention:
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/554729


Now on to the coin in question from jimbucks. The Heritage EAC grade was most likely made by Mark Borckardt, and the Bowers EAC grade was likely made by John Kraljevich, both are exemplary graders and knowledgeable in EAC coinage. I remember discussing this coin last year http://goccf.com/t/379784 I'm still not sure which way I'd call it Proof or no Proof, I'm leaning to not a proof, but I'm no expert so don't listen to me on this.

Jimbucks you may want to contact Ed Fuhrman his contact info is on the post I made here: http://goccf.com/t/393615 He is a super nice guy and really knows his Half Cents, he is a researcher and dogged about finding all sorts of minutia details on minting and die varieties of the Half Cent series. Also Bill Eckberg, I checked his fairly new book and there isn't any information on the proof Half Cents in it that I can find.

Nothing other than a reference to Breen's book comments in "The Half Cent Die State Book 1793-1857" by Ronald P. Manley, Ph.D. so that was a no go too. That is an in depth and really hard to find book, I happen to have a copy in my library.



"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
03/03/2021 10:51 pm
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 Posted 03/03/2021  9:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Westcoin, thanks for the info. I contacted Sean Yancey at EAC last year and from the images he was of the opinion it is not a proof, but he was not definitive about that. Walter Breen's "Encyclopedia of United States Half Cents" Page 460 states the B-1 proof is a R-7, almost R-8. I have yet to have found another 1857 proof Half Cent with a B-1 designation, but that doesn't surprise me. The HA reference to "Ex Dill, 11/17/1970" is interesting, but I can not find any info at all regarding the reference.


Edited by jimbucks
03/03/2021 9:55 pm
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 Posted 03/03/2021  10:53 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Jim I'd still suggest you get ahead of Ed Fuhrman, he's the best guy I can recommend, beyond contacting Mark at Heritage, you can PM me if you need any of their emails.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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 Posted 03/04/2021  09:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cipster to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does this mean EAC examined the coin and assigned a grade or is HA assigning it based on some type of standards?


When coins are graded by EAC members it usually includes their names. Also, the seller may pass along a pedigree with the grade, notes, and names of graders.
Member ANA and EAC

"You got to lose to know how to win".
Dream On by Aerosmith
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 Posted 03/04/2021  10:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, this opened up so many topics to me.

The easier topic to comment on is IDing varieties.
I've got Manley's book to help me ID Half Cent varieties.
And I now have Fuhrman new book about Draped Bust Half Cents on the way to me (I'll also get the second volume, Classic Head and Braided Hair, when it gets published).
It'll be interesting to see how they compare.
As for the TPG's ( PCGS and NGC, in particular) IDing the varieties, I'd put the least trust in them getting it right.

My example of TPG variety identification is my 1856 FE.
PCGS ID'ed it as a Snow-3, hence the MS grade.
NGC will only grade an 1856 FE as PF; they do not recognize Snow's work.

As for the grade of a coin, that's pretty much "in the eye of the beholder" and their choice.
-- Market grading
-- Technical grading
-- EAC grading

And value, well...?
Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
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 Posted 03/04/2021  6:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Digging into this, since it was auctioned at HA #390 Jules Reiver auction with NGC holder stating this (I presume NGC did this special for this auction and the coin was raw prior to this sale).

Reference to "Dill 11/17/1970" is interesting, but I can't find any info on it -- it seems many of the HA #390 Jules Reiver auction coins makes this same reference. Does anyone have any info on this reference to Dill?

Here's the coin in its NGC holder (poor quality HA image).


Thank you.
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