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Black Spots On Copper And Silver Coin

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
736 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2021  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will put here just received from Ottawa museum of arts a cleaned and reconditioned bronze jar with an age of +2000 years and the appraised with a value of 100 times I was lucky to buy.

Before was green like this (not same photo)



Now is like this with all details on:




For checking purpose if some one do not beleive the age here is the mark:


My logic on this subject it is that if art, stamps, banknotes and also the antics coins are recognized at theirs full value even they are cleaned non invasive, results that it is just a matter of time that the community will accept and recognize without any financial interest.
Edited by silviosi
04/01/2021 11:00 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
887 Posts
 Posted 04/01/2021  11:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
silviosi, to be honest something like that looks like it would fetch a larger premium if left untouched. I am a big fan of ancient relics and from my point of view it should have been left alone, the surface discolouration tells a story of its age and origin, and I'm sure it would be easier to date before it was cleaned, cleaning it ruins that story and dating it becomes harder regardless of the stamp.

No offence by any means when I say this, but that is probably why you were "lucky" because to me, it looks fake now.... I do however see your point, but cleaning coins is still cleaning coins and nobody wants that unless its a rare key date IMO and I don't think that will ever change, not in this life time anyway.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...IC_ID=367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...IC_ID=373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...IC_ID=364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...IC_ID=362747
Valued Member
Canada
221 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  12:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cdngmt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think Silviosi should market his 'soap' when he perfects it ......he will be swamped with orders
Pillar of the Community
Canada
736 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  12:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will not clean I will ship the soap. If I will do my wife will kill me.

@John You have a big and objective point of view. At museum they test from all point of view, at least this is what they describe. Before you was not able to see exact the design, after I find to be a piece of art with empirics tools. Was also full of basement mud. I clean before bid the bottom from mud and ask my wife of the reading signs (is Chinese origins) and told me is something like lost language written and only few people can identified, so I bid and I was lucky for almost 1000$ CAN after border fees. I like those lost way to produce art. I can see in many parts the damage from the centuries of Verdi's, it 's ok and I like to look and appreciate the way how they do 'it. Close show clear was hammer done inclusive the approx. round of.
Edited by silviosi
04/02/2021 12:54 am
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
Canada
3567 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  07:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you took your vase to Antiques Roadshow, they would say that you took away over half its value. Do you consider what you did to the vase "non-invasive"? You can see from the bottom the scratch marks and what looks like sand-paper grit grooves. I thought that you said that you and 2 co-workers were going to start a business of cleaning/preserving stamps, coins and banknotes.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
736 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  3:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oki everything on the vase was done at Ottawa Museum of Arts. I do not touch the vase in any kind, just make the glass cover and find the right stand. The traces we see are the original traces discovered after they do the cleaning. I have three pages of their report of the cleaning-preservation. The museums do like this, and I have others which they refused a cause of the danger to deteriorate. Maybe I will take photos and show which ones they refused.

Me I look for 100% non invasive treatment, even the drying is done by flow of air on suspended coin in cotton soft tissue, no hand touch without chirurgical gloves.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
736 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  3:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here two example of what the museum refuse to clean:




Loondon after test estimated at 1200 to 1500 years old, and the vase at 800 to 1000 years old.

Me I will not touch.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1829 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  3:46 pm  Show Profile   Check nickelsguy's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe that you are comparing apples to oranges......antiquities which have been buried, in fires and or are thousands of years old are cleaned as common place. Canadian coins lose value when cleaned....just my two nickles worth
Pillar of the Community
Canada
736 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  3:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
HiHiHi Nikeguy you are funny. Thanks we have to be happy on Easter days. You are right, if it is 1926 far nickel, I take I need for my hole.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1829 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Check nickelsguy's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please remember this......A bunch of collectors I know will compare images of a previously seen/offered coin to one being offered for sale...............coins as you know have (most) bag marks etc that are unique. If an individual buys a spotted coin at an on-line auction then offers an example with no spots.....it will be outed as a cleaned coin. A LARGE dealer was caught upgrading notes same thing. Just two more nickles worth....
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4706 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  6:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did the museum charge for this service ?
Pillar of the Community
Canada
736 Posts
 Posted 04/02/2021  6:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, the first cleaning cost 475 plus taxes and 250 plus taxes for appraisal.

Me I pay for this because I like them (those artifacts) and I do not want to deteriorate more. Also because they are specialists on those artifacts. Maybe on the visions of many is lost value, but for me no because I like to look and admire the art.

They also repair me a picture from 1889 an Abbey the fonder of the first English art school in London and now I am happy with the work which they done.
Edited by silviosi
04/02/2021 6:53 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2570 Posts
 Posted 04/05/2021  11:19 pm  Show Profile   Check Wade's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Planchets are cleaned prior to striking so all coins have been cleaned.


actually that would make all planchets have been cleaned. they aren't coins yet. posting the statement twice does not make it factual.


Quote:
I had a pocket 10$ 1914 gold coin which was tarnish


gold... does... (wait for it)... not... tarnish...

please don't sell "soap" of any kind with the statement that it won't result in a coin being "cleaned". if you do, please market it to Canadian colonial collectors... that way every coin ruined will result in +value to my collection.
Coin Collecting... "I'm in it for the money" ™
Pillar of the Community
Canada
736 Posts
 Posted 04/07/2021  12:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wade, sorry, yesterday I was busy.

the coins after strike are clean because the emollient use on dies could affect in long term. Second the NCS when preserve and clean the coins on the first step use soap and steam to take out all the dirt. This operation do not affect the coin, do not change the color or such. then after this operation they go to studies the different kind of tarnish or spots. If they are organic, they will clean and then certify and send to TPG, and the coin will come without CLEANED.

About the gold: The normal color of gold is yellow. After a time become more reddish and if somehow Cl or S come in contact become brown. just a worm bath with soft soap will clean.

How many times you use the vinegar which is acid and salt which is NaCl, or peroxide or acetone? This is OK? NO is very invasive cleaning.

Preserving the historical objects, do not mean lost in value or deteriorate. Museums do, TPG's do everybody do because we have the technology to do. Is not perfect now but will come. The old (like me) mentality of is a clean coin, no value is past. This was only an marketing and business tool.

Wide all my appreciation for you and your knowledge. I will never have this. at the next ANA when the time permit, Pet and Will will talk about. Sorry I can not disclosure theirs full names but I am sure you know them.
New Member
Canada
28 Posts
 Posted 04/13/2021  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bigal12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Market your soap Silviosi ,you`ll sell a bunch .
I had a penny that was unrecognizable ,used it to try different cleaning methods ,turns out to be a rarer variety .Polished rare variety or unrecognizable junk ,I think I did okay myself, no value to some value .
I see many cleaned pennies selling well on ebay .I know the one I cleaned will be around a lot longer now .Rot gone or at least slowed up.
Could it be that standards/ideas are changing ? Good shape older coins aren`t getting easier to find.

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