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New Vat Rules On Purchasing Coins Outside The UK

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Pillar of the Community
United States
1238 Posts
 Posted 04/17/2021  10:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On a related note for those living outside the USA, please don't ask American dealers to declare your purchases at a reduced amount or as gifts. Customs evasion is a potentially serious crime.
Edited by Kushanshah
04/17/2021 10:11 pm
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2416 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2021  04:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm sure the Government is desperate for all the revenue it can get at the moment - all governments are - but a 20% hike in a luxury item is just too much for me. 5% is manageable - that's in the normal tolerance of prices anyway - but not 20. And that will be for every coin.

This will hit the hobby here. Obviously not all sales are through eBay nor are international - but enough are I think to make the changes felt. I've already had an Asian dealer (who sells almost exclusively through eBay) that I buy frequently from say he has noticed it already.
Edited by Bacchus2
04/18/2021 07:22 am
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
18579 Posts
 Posted 04/18/2021  07:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Increased taxes, be they Value added Tax, estate duties, or increased income tax in the year of sale
all help to discourage the buying or selling of any item in the fine arts market, be they coins, paintings, decorative art objects or whatever.

How may feathers a government can think they can pluck off a live turkey without killing it is a matter of judgement for that government.

Increased VAT would certainly lower the frequency of my coin purchases,
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1919 Posts
 Posted 04/19/2021  07:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Pertinax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the UK, if you buy coins from a major dealer (anyone with a turnover of 85,000 or more), you'll be paying VAT on your purchases.

It might be at a lesser rate, if the seller is using a scheme where VAT is charged on the profit, but you're still paying VAT.

We don't see the VAT element when we're buying a TV, a washing machine, or a pint of beer. If you pay 300 for a washing machine, you're really paying 250 + 50 VAT.

I think we just have to accept that the coin price includes some VAT.
Life Fellow, Royal Numismatic Society

My wants list: http://goccf.com/t/283145
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2416 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2021  09:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I thought VAT was only applicable to services, goods that were new or the profit made on selling something on. Ie you didn't have to pay VAT on selling something second hand as long as it wasn't sold for more than the "new" price.

But I guess that's all irrelevant, as importing a coin from abroad trumps the niceties around it being second hand.

I suspect most of my coin buying was from non VAT registered businesses in the past so I never really noticed it as an issue.
Edited by Bacchus2
04/20/2021 09:28 am
Pillar of the Community
Australia
707 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2021  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

Which is what they used to do with the blanket charges under their Global Shipping scheme.

Used to? They still do. GSP charges way more than the 10% GST owing on purchases into Australia. I ignore EBay listings that use GSP. $30 to ship a farthing at snail pace? It's laughable.

I suspect you in the UK are facing what happened in Australia some years ago. With increasing OS sales certain millionaires whined that Australians weren't buying from them because of the 10% GST they had to pay in Australia but not from overseas. To appease them the government decided to implement GST collection on OS purchases. Problem was, how to collect it? Both customs and Aus Post got their backs up and modelling showed that the cost of collecting the GST using these methods would exceed the amount of GST collected. As a solution the government decided to make electronic sales platforms (and I think freight companies) responsible for collecting the GST. Legally they had no jurisdiction over international companies so they could give the Aus government the finger but companies with a physical footprint in Australia (like EBay and Amazon) were soft targets. In Australia you are liable to charge GST if you have an annual turnover of $75,000AU (whether you sell new or secondhand items) so technically, an overseas company that does $75,000 of sales to Australia should pay GST. Never going to happen though. So yes, many OS sellers would be under that $75,000 limit but it's too much hassle for Ebay and the likes to weed them out so they place a 10% charge on all OS purchases. The irony is that many items purchased from OS are not available in Aus or are still way cheaper (including shipping) than the same items for sale from Aus sellers so I suspect the introduction of GST on sales platforms hasn't bought droves of punters back to buying from Australian sellers. We are still lucky in that the post office doesn't perform customs duties so most packages ordered directly from sellers don't get charged GST.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
707 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2021  6:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add David Graham to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How does that fit into coin trading? If the coins weren't purchased with legal tender to begin with, will the receiver in the UK still get pinged 20% VAT? What about gifts and parcels sent to relatives? Does the post office try and charge VAT on those? Curious.
Edited by David Graham
04/28/2021 6:57 pm
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1055 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2021  1:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add andyg to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
oddly, I received today a parcel from a friend in the Netherlands - it had been opened at customs and stuck back with purple Home Office border force tape, so it seems they are not waving things through now.

Gifts to the UK are OK up to a value of 39 - after that 20% tax is due.....
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2416 Posts
 Posted 05/18/2021  07:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bacchus2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've no idea about gifts and how that is affected. It might be up to the recipient to "prove that it is a gift" though quite how that would work is a mystery.

As an update I purchased something from Etsy recently and when I checked the small print found this
"Etsy is not obligated to collect VAT on shipments from the EU to Northern Ireland, or on shipments from Northern Ireland to other parts of the UK"

I know that we in Northern Ireland have a basically unworkable half in and half out of the EU for trading purposes position but the Etsy disclaimer suggests that they will not unilaterally enforce the 20% VAT rule = presumably because if would be illegal to do so.

However Ebay are....

I wonder if there is a legal disparity here that Ebay are running afoul off?
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