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Third Party Gem BU Vs MS?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 435Next Topic  
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 Posted 04/08/2021  1:46 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I've seen, and heard, the Gem BU term before, especially seeking out the mint-state grades of Australian Wedge-tailed Silver Eagles. It has been my assumption that those with a BU or Gem BU on the label would get a grade lower than MS68. Is this right? Or are they simply bulk submissions requesting the designation, as I've heard a time or two? I also know that overseas, especially in Europe where they have a different scale than the Sheldon, BU and Gem BU are actual listed grades. Just curious.
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Edited by Ballyhoo
04/08/2021 1:50 pm
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 Posted 04/08/2021  4:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I still use BU and Gem BU on some of my coins . This is what the old timers used to use for uncirculated coins in the U.S. before the Sheldon Grading System .
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 Posted 04/08/2021  4:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I still use BU and Gem BU on some of my coins


yep, select, choice and gem.
1883-O Nut
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 Posted 04/08/2021  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sharkman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unslabbed BUs are frequently sliders or commercial unc.s with slight circulation.
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Australia
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 Posted 04/08/2021  8:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I use Sheldon grading for US coins, because US collectors are most familiar with this system and I mostly use Sheldon for Canadian coins for the same reason.

I use British adjectival grading for all other coins because that system is much more commonly used and understood by the rest of the World's collectors. Also used by other than US based international auction houses for non US coins.

Is I see it,
MS60-63 = Uncirculated
MS64-66 = choice Uncirculated
MS67-69 = gem Uncirculated.
MS-70 = FDC (Fleur de Coin) In this case only, can apply to both perfectly struck specimen coins as well as proof coins. 'Proof' added as a comment, but that should be obvious for proof coins struck after about 1960.

Irrespective if coins are slab graded or not.
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 Posted 04/08/2021  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Based on my read of many US-based auction catalogs over the years. plus books on grading US coins, here is a chart to convert between adjectival and numeric grading:

Uncirculated: MS 60
Select Uncirculated: MS 61-62
Choice Uncirculated: MS 63-64
Gem Uncirculated: MS65-66
Superb Uncirculated: MS 67-68

Of course, this was the scale as used before market grading took over. So, today's "Gem" coins may turn out to be yesterday's "Choice" coins that have strong eye appeal!


Quote:
It has been my assumption that those with a BU or Gem BU on the label would get a grade lower than MS68. Is this right?

In many cases, "Yes, that's correct!" I have, however, purchased a "Gem BU" coin that was submitted for a re-grade and it came bask as MS-69. So, as always, it's best to closely examine a coin vs. just accepting what is listed on a grading label.

Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
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 Posted 04/09/2021  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Originally when the so called Sheldon scale was applied to mint state grades by the ANA in 1977 Gem meant a MS-65 coin. Before they finally went to all 11 grades and dropped the adjectives the grades were
MS-60 Typical Unc
MS-63 Choice Unc
MS-64 Select Unc
MS-65 Gem Unc
MS-67 Superb Unc
MS-70 Perfect Unc
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 04/10/2021  07:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I simply ignore all of those so called grades. I just want all my coins in an Album to look new.
just carl
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 Posted 04/12/2021  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I just want all my coins in an Album to look new.
As do we all!
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 Posted 04/12/2021  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually I like mine to show a little wear. Proof that they did the job they were intended for.
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 04/12/2021  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I do not mind the wear, especially in my 7070. Not just because it is cheaper, but old and worn looks real.
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 Posted 04/12/2021  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ballyhoo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I use the scale mentioned, Commems. Especially with the Pre-decimal Irish coinage I'm avidly pursuing, shooting for the best examples for a complete series. As to the original question, I'm leaning towards PCGS and NGC giving a coin the BU or Gem BU designation because it would grade below a 68. Which sort of makes sense until compared with, say, Morgan dollars.
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There's no problem only solutions - the late, great John Lennon
Edited by Ballyhoo
04/12/2021 2:32 pm
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