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2019 P NMi Quarter Double Die?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 515Next Topic  
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 Posted 04/10/2021  5:03 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add mjp79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Found this a couple months back. Looks to be a double die and not just Machine Doubling, but I'm not too confident. I don't see anything on reverse, just included image for reference.







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 Posted 04/10/2021  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to CCF

It looks like MD to me from a worn out die
Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on
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 Posted 04/10/2021  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The extra thickness on the RTY in LIBERTY looks good!

I think this is a new DDO.

There is also some form of Die Deterioration Doubling on the outer lettering though, which is what your photos seem to focus on. Doubling on the single-squeeze (roughly 1997-present) dies tend to be stronger towards the center of the coin. So you might have been looking in the wrong spot!
Edited by Tanman2001
04/10/2021 5:23 pm
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 Posted 04/10/2021  6:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could be wrong, but this looks like just DDD to me. The "doubling" all points toward the center of the coin.
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 Posted 04/10/2021  7:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well it is not a doubled die. But it is opposite side of the devices for DDD. (On the wrong side of the devices) So hang onto for now. Normally the DDO show on the earlobe and the motto area. But just opposite for some reason.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 04/10/2021  8:06 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Guys its both.

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 Posted 04/10/2021  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Tanman2001 you are very experience guy. This quarter is a Philla strike. The modern coins are struck only once. It is a horizontal strike with a frequency of 750 by minute. Many talk about DD on those strikes. How can happened?!!? To be a end life die, yes.

The dies to day are change and no re-polish or re-engraving is done. In fact the only place could still happened is on PROOF where many strike are use for a single coins.

I thing we have to adapt. Damage die yes could be, but double die on a single strike? Happy to know opinions.
Edited by silviosi
04/10/2021 8:18 pm
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 Posted 04/10/2021  8:48 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
double die on a single strike


I think you fundamentally misunderstand doubled dies. I've seen you post things along this line multiple times now uncorrected. Doubled dies don't occur during striking. Doubled dies are the duplication of design elements on the working hub that occur during the hubbing process (the transfer of the design to the working dies / the creation of dies). This includes dies that are hubbed multiple times with slight misalignments or the die/hub shifting during a single hubbing. All coins struck by that die then will show doubling.
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 Posted 04/10/2021  9:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would like to see images on the right side of the coin to see if there is MD on the right sides of the devices. I have a feeling that when direction is considered, the answer will be a real sloppy MD with a twist that is altering the devices on the left side. The RTY is not affected as the bust is protecting those devices. But on the right side we will see the outer devices affected with the MD and Probably the motto and the bust. It looks like I can see MD on the earlobe.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 04/10/2021  9:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silviosi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Tanman you are right. This it is the definition (for the old way to produce and adjust the dies). To day a die is done by laser. It is almost no way to have this.

The only thing could happened to day is a move of the die to .25 deg. from the axes (the tolerance) which can give this DD (the modern term). MD, yes this could be all the time, is to fast and differences are almost inevitable.
Edited by silviosi
04/10/2021 11:18 pm
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 Posted 04/10/2021  10:26 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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 Posted 04/10/2021  11:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mjp79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've attempted to take some better pictures of the obverse.









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 Posted 04/11/2021  06:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking more like a high bounce Machine Doubling issue or a coin ejection issue, which is also a MD issue. The devices are not hub doubled, but normal and altered. Thanks for the last set of images, as they helped a lot more.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 04/11/2021  10:59 am  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Doubling on UNITED and QUARTER DOLLAR is Die Deterioration Doubling, not a doubled die.

Extra thickness on RTY in LIBERTY (and maybe STATES?) is a doubled die. It's not nearly as strong as it, but I don't see how this thickness is different from the known 2019-P NMI DDO.

Literally the same thing happened when the first one was found here on CCF. Everyone focused on the DDD and missed the real doubling. I pointed out the real doubling and it was later confirmed by Wexler and Wiles.

A side-by-side has to be made of the last few letters in LIBERTY. I don't have time this morning.
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 Posted 04/11/2021  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mjp79 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I greatly appreciate everyones thoughts and insight! You are all a wonderful resource. I will consider sending it for attribution based on Tanman2001 opinion and the other thread that was posted with a very similar coin.
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 Posted 04/11/2021  10:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Glad Tanman chimed in because I missed the doubling on LIBERTY until he mentioned it.

I can see the separation on the foot of the R (LIBERTY) the most. Congrats.
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