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Extremely Ordinary Looking Follis Of Diocletian

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 401Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2021  7:43 pm Show Profile   Check FVRIVS RVFVS's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Spent the day two Sundays back following a few auctions
Prices seem to be insane these days
Half the time I think I could do better buying on Vcoins !
But what's a poor boy to do but wait .... and wait
Finally found something worthwhile
Decent little follis of Diocletian
not even a western mint that I collect
and I had to cough up 34 euros .... Ouch !

Alexandria Mint
9.51 grams 25mm




I guess I will just toss it into my box of folles
Then again ....
Maybe not ?
IN GOD WE TRVST ....... all others pay cash !

COGITO ERGO SPVD
I think ...... therefore I yam
Pillar of the Community
United States
5780 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2021  9:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Decent indeed. Good looking coin.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 04/20/2021  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Check FVRIVS RVFVS's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a tough audience ......
I mean a really tough audience

Hint
RIC 18a AD 296

IN GOD WE TRVST ....... all others pay cash !

COGITO ERGO SPVD
I think ...... therefore I yam
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
18438 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  02:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My coin junk box is full of follies!
This one doesn't qualify - much too good for that.
All of the design is there, and evenly struck.

This coin has had a lot of patient work done to it by a professional, to pacify and remove bronze disease, followed by preservation.
I think a reasonable price for a frustrated by CV-19 ancient collector, especially considering the labor of love that has been invested in it. Now a handsome and honest coin. Would have been 'as struck', if it hadn't been for the corrosion, which hasn't really affected the character of the coin.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  07:05 am  Show Profile   Check FVRIVS RVFVS's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have no doubts that someone has invested very many hours conserving this rather "ordinary" looking follis of Diocletian
First rate work !
But I am afraid my (well known !) obnoxious sense of humor has obscured the issue
My question lies more in how it ended up being sold in a reputable auction house for 34
with no other attribution attached than
"Follis Alexandria Diocletian" !

http://augustuscoins.com/ed/usurpers/Usurpers.html

IN GOD WE TRVST ....... all others pay cash !

COGITO ERGO SPVD
I think ...... therefore I yam
Pillar of the Community
United States
851 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  11:26 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add travelcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ohhhhhh - I get it now, this is a scarce issue. The same follies were used by the usurper DOMITIUS DOMITIANUS. Well I'm schooled again - thank you for posting.
Edited by travelcoin
04/21/2021 12:00 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
5780 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bob L to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ohhhhhh - I get it now, this is a scarce issue.


I'm going to try Google Translate with FVRIVS' next post.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  1:38 pm  Show Profile   Check FVRIVS RVFVS's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ha !
I had finally convinced myself that "Bob L" was the name of a new and improved version of the HAL 9000 !
That you were actually an AI
Instantly ceaselessly tirelessly churning out attributions for not only the most enigmatic ancient coins
but also giving ID to any common type even when the full legends were plain as day ....
Without ever showing any sense of despair
But now I know you are flesh and blood
(blood of a color yet to be determined !)

But now I can sleep a little better knowing that the worlds foremost authority is only perfect 99.99 % of the time
Still ....
I would have bet the ranch that it wouldn't slip past the Bob L 9000 !
I am still in awe

IN GOD WE TRVST ....... all others pay cash !

COGITO ERGO SPVD
I think ...... therefore I yam
Valued Member
United States
456 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Check Victor's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Victor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have an example for Domitius Domitianus





my page on this issue

http://www.constantinethegreatcoins.../Alexandria/
Pillar of the Community
United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  2:15 pm  Show Profile   Check FVRIVS RVFVS's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Superb
IN GOD WE TRVST ....... all others pay cash !

COGITO ERGO SPVD
I think ...... therefore I yam
Pillar of the Community
United States
851 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add travelcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Victor, now that is impressive.
Valued Member
United States
456 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  8:49 pm  Show Profile   Check Victor's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Victor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Domitianus is nice to have, but coins for the other rulers from this series seem to be rarer. The Diocletian above is certainly tougher to find...I am still missing him; but have all the others. My best condition (and current favorite) is this Galerius, which has nicely toned silvering.


Moderator
Learn More...
United States
19182 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  9:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Instantly ceaselessly tirelessly churning out attributions for not only the most enigmatic ancient coins
but also giving ID to any common type even when the full legends were plain as day ....
Without ever showing any sense of despair


This made me chuckle! Great coins by the way.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

Valued Member
United States
456 Posts
 Posted 04/21/2021  10:34 pm  Show Profile   Check Victor's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Victor to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I bought this Constantius I example today. Despite the poor dealer photos, I believe that there is a decent coin there.

seller's photos below--





Pillar of the Community
United States
3281 Posts
 Posted 04/22/2021  08:52 am  Show Profile   Check FVRIVS RVFVS's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Surprising in this age of instant digital photography that sellers will often not make any effort to provide a decent set of photos
But it can be rewarding for the patient buyer to spot those "Much Better in Hand !" offerings !
While I cannot know the damage incurred to your wallet this Constantius looks like it may be a real winner

I had noticed on my Diocletian the curious look of the letter S in the legend
I see that same repeated on your Domitius Galerius and Constantius
As if the author was more accustomed to the Greek ς
It seems all too probable

But back to the thread at hand
I omitted any explanation of these folles in my original post
Under the monetary reorganization of Diocletian the mint of Alexandria began to issue Roman Imperial coinage in AD 294 with the introduction of the new billon follis
Around AD 296 a usurper appears in Egypt known to history as Domitius Domitianus
Sometimes referred to as Domitian II
Precious little is known about this usurper although it seems he was a popular figure
Scholars have debated the exact period of his rule but of note is the fact that he issued coins in his name in both Imperial folles and billon tetradrachms
So the persuasive argument is that he belongs to an early transition period
I think that is even better in explaining the S
Domitius obviously knew his position was somewhat precarious with Diocletian sitting in residence up in Antioch
In order to placate the senior Augustus and his "brothers" Maximianus Galerius and Constantius the mint of Alexandria began issuing folles in all five different names
But perhaps presumptively assigning himself the rank of Augustus !
Diocletian was not amused
In fact he was furious
One source states that he promised to ride his horse through the streets of Alexandria "knee deep in blood"
By AD 297 the uprising had been suppressed and the memory of Domitius all but erased
The folles of the period following begin to take on the highly stylized portraiture more familiar to collectors
They may have been brought in from Antioch as the Alexandrian mint workers likely vanished !


Oh and Bob (9000 !)
Whenever you see me mention a price ....
That's a clue that something absurd is in the wind
IN GOD WE TRVST ....... all others pay cash !

COGITO ERGO SPVD
I think ...... therefore I yam
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