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1953 Quarter Re-Visited With New Evidence

 
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 Posted 05/23/2021  7:45 pm Show Profile   Check 47P7's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Is this an error in Charlton and or CoinsandCanada?
this subject was previously posted by myself with another 1953 quarter.
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum...IC_ID=378914

And it came into my mind again today while imaging this new quarter
My coin pictured here, is IMO, NSF-SD., according to Charlton
Maybe I am reading it wrong? but looking at the posted Charlton images, that is what I see until proven otherwise.
Charlton lists a NSF-LD.
And C+C lists only SD and LD. they do not say anything about SF.
Pacific, IMO, you can see that your coin and my coin, except for a different strike, are very, very close to being the same.
Perhaps we can get to the bottom of that and clear it up beyond any daubts.?
thanks guys
H


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 Posted 05/23/2021  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin is a large date.
Mostly because the date is larger than the date on the coin to the left.
All large dates are NSF.
All small dates are SF.
There are no mules.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
05/23/2021 9:01 pm
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 Posted 05/23/2021  9:28 pm  Show Profile   Check 47P7's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DBM
You are making a very strong statement here, based on the images I posted.
they are not taken with the same camera settings and lens distances to the object and, not the same type lens.
So, what about the antlers? clearly missing on the charlton images! this is not a printing error.
Carlton also has the distances from number to number different! and I assume that Scott (brian's ( ICCS) son) took the images with the same lens.
You MAY BE right, but at this point, I do not concur.
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 Posted 05/23/2021  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Antlers schmantlers it IS a printing error.
Where did you ever see a quarter with antlers like that?
You look at the pics in Charlton's and don't bother reading the accompanying text.
If you read the text, and can follow what it says you would understand why your coin is a large date.
If the problem is that you can't read then we cant help you.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
Edited by DBM
05/24/2021 10:37 am
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 Posted 05/23/2021  10:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with DBM, coin on the right is a large date and coin on the left is a small date. One thing I have noticed with varieties like this, there are usually minor differences besides the date and the SF/NSF that most just choose not to bother with, mainly because either way its going to be one or the other.
Aggressively searching Canadian Small Cents on a daily basis since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 George VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/373627
1970 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDR http://goccf.com/t/364301
1989 Belize 25 Cent's with a Doubled Die Reverse http://goccf.com/t/362747
Edited by JohnWayne007
05/23/2021 10:57 pm
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 Posted 05/24/2021  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Check 47P7's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Preamble to this post:
My post and position is solely based on Page 161 of the 2021 Charlton, 74th edition, and many, if not all previous editions.
------------------------------------------------------------------
DBM
Antlers schmantlers it IS a printing error.
what are Schmantlers?

Are you saying that this printing error that is repeated year after year in the Charlton Canadian Coin Catalogues since at least 2011 or longer (I checked to 2011)? that would mean that the original photographer and or the publisher do allow the same mistake over and over being published as fact and a reference and nobody ever noticed it?
Hard to believe....

Where did you ever see a quarter with antlers like that?

Like what? the 2 smaller antlers under the date as pictured in Charlton? It is a photograph taken by experts. Charlton books are relied on as a top-notch coin publication and coin reference by millions of people worldwide.
And just about everyone is looking for this specific coin. There must be at least one, as it was photographed exactly that way!
OR do YOU think that someone purposely "doctored" or "corrected" this image to create some controversy in future?
I do not believe that either the publisher, Printer or Photographer would have had any interest, nor a reason to purposely "modify" their images in such a way! And, there were also coin experts who were proofreading the whole catalogue.
This constellation described here and seen on page 161, is published in every Charlton every year and dating back many years (I checked back to 2011, exactly the same):
"A visibly shorter antler below the 9, pointing just to the left of the bottom of the 9, and just a very small and minute stump of an antler to the north of the larger antler, indicating the rest has possibly broken off the stack"
I have checked, not guessed, every quarter in hand from 1937 to 1967 with close attention to all 1953's and did not find another like it. But, what does that really mean?
Probably not much.
How many 1953 nickels do you need to check to find just one of the two known mules? Fact is, they do exist. But, for some collectors, it remains a wish to own one.
And how many of any 1953 denomination coins do you need to check to find an SF or an NSF (these odds are very excellent because there are many of each).
Or, how many 1967 silver quarters do YOU need to check before you find one struck in Nickel? They do exist!
As for the rest of your post? Well, nothing needs to be said. just read it again.
And then read and see what Charlton published about the 1953 quarters. You are telling me to read and see....I did and I hope everyone also will. there was nothing I did not already know... and I do understand it. And I have seen the images. even the one you call a printing error.
Please also note: I did not dispute anything about the LD or the SD. These are what they are. The issue here is not about the date.
All I always said is this, perhaps in other words: 1953 LD has these 2 short antlers as a main and very prominent and visible marker, as published in Charlton.
Plus it appears that there is also possibly another prominent marker, it being NSF.
But according to your suggestion, a coin like it, published and pictured for years by Charlton, with short antlers, does not exist!
Can you please explain this, so everyone including me, does understand?
thank you
H
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 Posted 05/24/2021  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
" It is a photograph taken by experts. Charlton books are relied on as a top-notch coin publication and coin reference by millions of people worldwide." Your quote

I don't believe either sentence from your post. When Bill Cross still had his fingers in the pie and Brian Cornwell was as well, then things were better. But many of us have complained for years about the inaccurate information that Charlton reprinted for years and years. They weren't very astute about making and acknowledging corrections. Charlton is referred to and used by many many Canadian Collectors, but Charlton isn't the Bible. The Whitman/Haxby guide is much better and covers more stuff. I can't help you with your 25 cents .. not my area.
Edited by okiecoiner
05/24/2021 5:06 pm
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 Posted 05/24/2021  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are numerous coins published in Charlton's that don't exist.
The one in the line drawing you refer to is one of them.
If you ignore the pic and read the text you will discover your coin is NSF large date, no question.
Did you take out your calipers to measure?
Or didn't you bother to read the specs?
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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 Posted 05/24/2021  4:56 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Are you saying that this printing error that is repeated year after year in the Charlton Canadian Coin Catalogues since at least 2011 or longer (I checked to 2011)? that would mean that the original photographer and or the publisher do allow the same mistake over and over being published as fact and a reference and nobody ever noticed it?
Hard to believe....


Actually, no it's not hard to believe at all. It's merely a publication, and not even a peer reviewed one at that... it's full of mistakes, some of which have lingered on for more than a decade.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 05/24/2021  5:48 pm  Show Profile   Check 47P7's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okie,

Quote:
When Bill Cross still had his fingers in the pie and Brian Cornwell was well, then things were better.

Oh yes, I agree.
However, I just checked the 2010 edition. Guess what...it is the same.
and back then, and for a few more years I believe, Bill Cross was still running the show. And I believe Scott Cornwell did take the pictures for Bill Cross.
Just wondering why that image would be in all the Charlton books dating back at least to 2010 then.
Bill Cross must have had his reasons. I am also fairly sure that Scott did not photograph any doctored coin just for fun. The camera photographed what its lens saw.He would have never used that Image if it was not true to the coin image!
I will ask Scott next time I call ICCS, to hear what he remembers.
Perhaps a misprint or printing error? Definitely NO. not over that time period!
Agreed, I have not found any other book with a reference to our subject. All have only SD + LD.
The subject here is NOT the date, it is the small antlers.
Well, you do not even need glasses to recognize this!

Okie, you remember the issues back at the copper forum when a fellow insisted that there is a 1932 far and near 2 nickel?
well, it turned out there is.
H
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 Posted 05/24/2021  6:04 pm  Show Profile   Check 47P7's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SPP,
I hear you But, but... I hear this actually the first time. It was my belief until I read your post, that this is the new "must-have" Bible every year.
Our posts must have crossed. I will, or someone will ask Scott what he remembers. I strongly believe that he would have never released that image if it was not true. I assume that this specific issue is not the first time that it came up. The image should not be a mystery.
So, why are we all buying every year the latest book if it knowingly does contain grave errors and these are uncorrected every year?
fair question? right?
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