Coin Community Family of Web Sites
YourCoinBox is offering a stress free way to appraise and sell your coins from the comfort of your home. Our goal is to create an ultra transparent and no pressure experience for finding out what your coins are worth and what to do with them.
Like us on Facebook! Subscribe to our Youtube Channel! Check out our Twitter! Check out our Pinterest!
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?


Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!

What's The Weight Tolerance For A 2 Cent Piece? (1864 In Question)

 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 451Next Topic  
Valued Member
United States
396 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2021  6:26 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add IsThisAnything to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I picked this up today. It weighs 4.7 grams and the others weigh around 5.9 as control. I know I need a more accurate scale, but I just haven't gotten a round to buying one yet. It's the middle coin in the stack.




Edited by IsThisAnything
05/29/2021 6:27 pm
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
59376 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2021  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Guessing wear and apparent corrosion could account for this difference.
Valued Member
United States
396 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2021  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IsThisAnything to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That makes sense. I've never collected any thin planchets so I wouldn't know my weights well and how much a coin could lose during circulation.
Pillar of the Community
United States
9649 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2021  11:24 pm  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The tolerance for these 2 cent pieces was 6.22 grams +/- 0.26 grams.

If your coin actually weighs 4.7 grams it would be an extraordinary amount of weight loss but certainly possible given its condition and remaining thickness. It is also possible it had a thin planchet from the get-go.
ANA #R3154474
Valued Member
United States
396 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2021  11:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IsThisAnything to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, BH and Coinfrog.

I do believe it's 4.7 grams. I tested some other coins in the scale and it seems to be in calibration. I thought that seemed like a lot even with the wear, but crazier things happen to coins.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4956 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2021  01:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If your coin actually weighs 4.7 grams it would be an extraordinary amount of weight loss but certainly possible given its condition and remaining thickness. It is also possible it had a thin planchet from the get-go.


My thinking as well. Had it started at the lightest possible weight within tolerance (5.96 g), this would still mean it lost over 21% from circulation. I've recorded weights for much of my own collection and found that even G-VG coins rarely weigh less than 5-6% less than the official standards, while PO-FR coins might just break 10%. 20+% seems absurd.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5564 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2021  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Jaobler to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Any US coin with this much weight loss from wear would be completely detail-free on both sides. No way this coin started out as a normal, full-weight mint product. Throwing out two random, unlikely explanations:
1) contemporary counterfeit.
2) off-metal strike on a less-dense alloy.
Valued Member
United States
396 Posts
 Posted 05/31/2021  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IsThisAnything to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's interesting, Jaobler. I didn't think of counterfeit, maybe I'll have to take a closer look at it later. It's not a very valuable coin, so it would be good one to counterfeit. No one gonna look too closely for that. That's far more likely than the off metal strike, even though the latter would be very cool.
Edited by IsThisAnything
05/31/2021 2:25 pm
Valued Member
United States
396 Posts
 Posted 05/31/2021  2:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IsThisAnything to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I realized coming back to this post today that I never uploaded the scale photo:
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
3517 Posts
 Posted 06/02/2021  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
-----Burton
47 year / Life ANA member (joined 12/1/1973)
Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA
Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, OnLinw Coin Club
Owned by four cats and a wife of 37 years (joined 1983)
Pillar of the Community
United States
8231 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2021  11:55 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This coin isn't a counterfeit, it's just worn. It is most likely die pairing FL-13CA fairly obvious as the 6 is so close to the ball of the shield bottom and the 4 even higher than the 6. Possibly FL-79BH also a very similar date placement. The amount of wear this coin has makes it virtually impossible to tell 100%, I might be able to in hand but not from photographs, there a few subtle die cracks that may still show up faintly that could designate one die pairing from another, but it doesn't really matter as neither are super rare.

Is there any rotation of the obverse to reverse? The FL-13CA is fairly well known to have varying degrees of rotation on it. Also known to have a mushy reverse and incomplete rim especially around the TE of states, Areas this coins is exhibiting weakness and wear already.

There are next to no known off metal strikes (excepting patterns) in Two Cent series, and major errors are extremely rare, for the amount struck (especially in 1864 & 1865) there just aren't many errors found to this day. I can count only a handful of off center, double struck examples, (way less than 30 found) and even less capped, brokage, and flip over strike examples, however, there are quite a few known thin planchet examples which this is much more likely.

I have also not seen counterfeits from the era. Only modern fakes out of China, surprising again as you see 3 cent silver counterfeits often, though that is likely due to the silver base metal versus copper/bronze alloy.

Here is a little blurb from noted Two Cent author and expert Frank Leone from his short lived "2-Cent Times" newsletter. (I have almost 2 complete sets of this really rare newsletter), and I have spent time at the ANA researching this unlike Frank, and still have not uncovered much more than he has from the article. 2 Cent errors are really, really rare (at least the major ones are). Lots of cuds, interesting die cracks, RPDs, a few DDOs, 1-DDR, and many other minor die varieties.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
06/03/2021 12:17 pm
Valued Member
United States
396 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2021  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IsThisAnything to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
West coin, thank you! That's some great information! I actually haven't known a lot about them and have just been picking up a few here and there lately, as I am a "one of everything" collector. That coin just stood out and felt off immediately when I picked it up. I don't collect for value, I collect for fun, so this is very interesting to me and informs my future 2 cent collecting.

I'll have to look to see if there is any rotation, but if there is, it would be VERY minor. I love rotated dies at any degree and I always look for them.
Valued Member
United States
396 Posts
 Posted 06/03/2021  8:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IsThisAnything to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I also didn't know counterfeits would be rare/non existant. I was just applying my retail knowledge about modern counterfeit patterns. That's why I get for assuming!
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17433 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2021  3:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would also wonder if it may have spent part of it's life in a corrosive solution and then returned to circulation. In his edge picture they appear to be fairly well lined up on the left edge of the image, but on the right side the coin in question seems to be inset from the other two. That would make me suspect a reduced diameter from a corrosive soaking.
Gary Schmidt
  Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 451Next Topic  
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.





Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2021 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use

Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2021 Coin Community Forums
It took 0.42 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05