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Dealer Gotcha Question

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Valued Member
United States
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 Posted 06/03/2021  2:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add captaincoffee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can always post pics here and maybe an expert on the series can give you a ballpark figure of worth. Not sure what coin we are talking about here.
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 Posted 06/04/2021  12:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The problem is lack of an efficient market. Not all dealers are interested in varieties, or have the connections to move a scarce variety.

I'm not a fan of eBay (and do not buy or sell there), but it is a large enough market to make an efficient market in many varieties. The peer network auctions, like CDN, achieve the same result, by marketing simultaneously to multiple buyers. The modern successors to the late, lamented Teletrade, such as Great Collections, sometimes achieve this result. In the land before COVID, bourse floors in larger shows did the same thing.

We're in a weird world where price guides are loose, demand is not necessarily rational, supply fluctuates wildly, and markets ping-pong between rational and barely rational. That uncertainty has sidelined many pure collectors, leaving the marketplace to speculators. It's not a bad environment for sales, but it's a nervous environment for dealers faced with tying up capital in an uncertain economy.

I liquidated almost my entire inventory over the last year, and I'm exclusively buying on commission for longtime customers. My sources are exclusively peer networks and longtime personal connections. I seriously doubt I will ever resume a pre-COVID business model. My wife and I have probably worked our last coin show. The world has changed.

Just from one corner of curmudgeonville here, but it may help explain the dealer's caution.
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 Posted 06/04/2021  10:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
My wife and I have probably worked our last coin show. The world has changed.


I really hope I can get to the coin show this fall.
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Taiwan
341 Posts
 Posted 06/06/2021  08:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Everest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How or why would you negotiate a sale of a coin when you admit that you have no idea what the
coin (variety) is worth ?
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 Posted 06/06/2021  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This post makes no sense to me. You have no price and want the other person to offer you a price. If I offered you $5 you would be offended, so what would you not be offended with?
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 Posted 06/06/2021  11:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you don't know what it's worth, they how could you evaluate an offer even if the dealer made one?
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 Posted 06/08/2021  12:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it is a n R-7 with no recent sales records, there is a pretty fair chance the dealer has no idea what it is really worth. Coins that rare, that rarely come on the market, are truly worth whatever they sell for in an open auction bidding situation. There is no accurate price guide or way to estimate current value. It comes down to what some "gotta have it" specialists are willing to pay for it in open competition. It can also depend on who is in the competition. Say the coin is being aggressively bid on by two specialists with DEEP pockets. It sells for a LOT. But same situation but only one of the specialists has deep pockets. The coin sells for a lot less. And what if neither has deep pockets? Now what is the coin really worth, the high price or the low price?
Gary Schmidt
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Canada
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 Posted 07/24/2021  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add whatdowehavehere to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As a Dealer at shows for decades, plus working in shops for a couple, I can't tell you the number of times an offer was made on an item, or collection, only to have the seller use it against me: "That guy over/at there offered me XXXX for this/them. Do you want it?" My offer is topped by a smidgeon, usually for "free" cash at a show. I remember one couple coming in the store with an album of Early & Medieval French coins. The other guy at the counter had no idea what they were, got me from the back, asking me 100? 200? I looked them over, and offered 2800. THey couple looked at each other, and ran out of the store, never to be seen again. Well, I saw the coins in a Boston-area European coin specialist dealer's case at a Bay State show. When I told him the story he just laughed, and said that be bought them for 50 more after he asked what I had offered. He didn't steal them by any means. So, honestly, in this day of Info-Age, research what you have to the best of your ability, when at a show go to the promoter (who may have a table at the show) and ask for who is/are the best buyer(s) of the material that you have for sale.

Since the OP knows what he has, and the Joe-on-the-Corner coin dealer probably has no idea, then it's a coin that needs a wider audience-which is anyone's for the asking.
Edited by whatdowehavehere
07/24/2021 12:59 pm
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United States
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 Posted 07/24/2021  1:59 pm  Show Profile   Check daltonista's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add daltonista to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
whatdowehavehere said: Since the OP knows what he has, and the Joe-on-the-Corner coin dealer probably has no idea, then it's a coin that needs a wider audience-which is anyone's for the asking.

...which is why God invented auctions.

Walking into a BMS with a rare coin just sets into play all the unproductive (psycho)dynamics to be anticipated in an "asymmetrical information" situation, regardless of which side is more knowledgeable than the other. This makes getting to win-win, much less to a sense of fair play as the OP seems to have expected in his/her scenario, just about impossible.

Of course none of that should apply when the buyer and seller have dealt with one another over a period of time, which is why we see so much action between dealers and "regulars" on the floor at coin shows. They know each other.

"I ain't good-looking, but I'm willing to try."
--- Dave "Snaker" Ray: 'It's All Right,' 1963
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 Posted 07/24/2021  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
End Game: I will have PCGS reholder it with the variety denoted on the holder. Then send to CAC. Then auction through GC. This is the coin referenced.
Valued Member
Taiwan
341 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2021  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Everest to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good luck with your coin. Your coin was sold by Stacks in August 2020 for $2880. It was described as a rare variety then in the write up but not noted on the slab. It would be my guess that the coin has already made the trip to CAC. Hopefully with the variety designation on the slab it will draw a little more attention.
Edited by Everest
07/24/2021 4:33 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17480 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2021  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK I think I know this coin, this is the Breen 1-A die pairing that PCGS called a proof. That adds extra controversy to the matter as many of the specialists in EAC are of the opinion that the 1-A combination wasn't actually struck as a proof, and as a business strike it's an R-2. The proof/specimen strike of this variety sold in the Missouri Cabinet sale for $7,763 (including buyer premium) and it was graded by PCGS as SP-65. So one of the main targeted groups of buyers may find it questionable. That could make it a harder sell for the dealer as well. (EACers don't always agree with the "grading gods")
Gary Schmidt
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 Posted 07/26/2021  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think he did not want the coin unless it was a steal so he asked you for a ballpark price and did not try to underbid and was therefore holding back from giving you a price.
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Australia
18955 Posts
 Posted 07/27/2021  02:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If a dealer tends to be evasive in his price negotiations, I tend to avoid to take avoiding action in response, and thus a transaction is far less possible.

Two negatives don't make a positive - they tend to repel.
But numismatically two positives make strong attraction, and thus a transaction usually results.

Anyone can pick up this in the vibes.
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22764 Posts
 Posted 07/28/2021  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Auction is the only way to sell a coin like that. Dealers rarely tell you what they'd pay except for bullion. They let you set a price then negotiate from there.
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