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Small Motto 1864 Two Cent Counterstamp

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 433Next Topic  
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61 Posts
 Posted 06/19/2021  7:36 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add apcol258 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I am not much of a counterstamp collector. I have but three pieces and two of those were purchased as part of a larger lot of unstamped coins. Despite it's condition, I was intrigued by this piece as I have never seen another counterstamped small motto Two Cent Piece before and could find no other record of one.

The counterstamp reads "Parmelee C.F.P.". Does anyone know who or what the counterstamp refers to or if there are any other examples? Any information as to the history associated with it would be greatly appreciated.



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40081 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2021  04:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Isn't there a section here on CCF for counter stamped coins? If so maybe it should be moved there?
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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United States
3925 Posts
 Posted 06/20/2021  6:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Having spotted the subject coin on eBay, I researched it a bit and came up empty. I do think it offers fair potential for attribution though. I have seen but a few c/s's on 1864 SM coins. Indeed, this was the toughest one for me to find to complete a date set of c/s's. The excessive environmental damage is what made me pass on it; this, given I already found a respectable specimen.


Quote:
Isn't there a section here on CCF for counter stamped coins? If so maybe it should be moved there?


I've pondered this question, myself, John1. The problem is, as I see it, there are so many categories of c/s's that adopting this approach would muddy the waters, so to speak. Consider that c/s's straddle the line between coins and exonumia. Then too, there's such a wide range of them, spanning from ancient coins to modern novelty c/s's. I'm thus inclined to see the c/s's being best relegated within the years the host coins were issued.
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 Posted 06/20/2021  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder why this counterstamp was put on there?
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 Posted 06/20/2021  7:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I wonder why this counterstamp was put on there?


This is one of many questions that typically arise about the who, what, when, where and WHY of any given c/s appearing on a coin. I once compiled a list of WHY's, pertaining to the motivation behind the practice of counterstamping.

A few of the more common reasons for this 1800's American fad were as follows:

1) to advertise a business via word-of-mouth, circulating coins.
2) to create a personalized pocket piece (often for masonic or fraternal reasons)
3) to test a punch (e.g.- patentees, machinists)
4) to create token remembrances for family/friends
5) to serve as checks or counters for a business
6) for use as a security device to thwart theft

By identifying the issuer and number of known coins bearing a given c/s, the WHY question can be better adjudged.

Regarding the issue of modern, 21st century c/s's, the WHY boils down to making money by creating novelty items. An example is the stamping of a state logo on a cent and peddling same for a 200-300 % profit.

Edited by ExoGuy
06/20/2021 7:11 pm
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 Posted 06/20/2021  8:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting list, and the whole topic is always interesting. Weren't some of these used as dog tags during the Civil War? I could be mistaken about that. Also political campaigns comes to mind as a category, although I don't have a specific example. I know I've seen Lincoln cents with a Kennedy portrait stamped on them, but can't recall the context. I poked around for "Parmalee C.F.P." but got nothing. Any idea what "C.F.P." could possibly be? All I can think of is "fire protection" or "fraternal police" with "C" being a location.
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 Posted 06/21/2021  08:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Any idea what "C.F.P." could possibly be?


I believe that these are Parmelee's initials. To my experience, it wasn't uncommon for an issuer to have separate name and initials. When I researched this piece, I tried using "Charles F. Parmelee" for example, along with other name combinations; this, but to no avail. Had the condition of this piece been better, I'd have tried harder.

Yes, political c/s's are yet another category on my list. The most familiar c/s in this category is VOTE THE LAND FREE.

"Dog tags" were, during the Civil War, called "identification disks." There are some known ones, but they're exceedingly rare. The published book on this genre mentions them but doesn't picture one on a coin, only many on die struck medals. I have but one example on a coin in my collection. The reason these c/s's are so rare is that sutlers and diesinkers stamped them on previously struck medals, typically portraying, McClellan, Lincoln and contemporary Union/military dies. It seems that most soldiers of the day had their names labeled on their clothing; this, being a more practical means of identification.

As for the Lincolns bearing a Kennedy portrait, I believe the stamp was created long after Kennedy's demise. Thus, the stamp wasn't intended to be of political nature. These Kennedy-stamped Lincolns were/are a novelty item, being simply issued for profit. I've seen them attached to promotional cards that list similarities between the subjects, Lincoln and Kennedy.
Edited by ExoGuy
06/21/2021 08:45 am
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 Posted 06/21/2021  1:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add apcol258 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exoguy, thank you for the insight and information about counterstamped coins. I have read some of your other topics and posts and they have always been very informative and enjoyable.


Quote:
I have seen but a few c/s's on 1864 SM coins. Indeed, this was the toughest one for me to find to complete a date set of c/s's.

I have completed the business strike Two Cent series with normal non stamped coins, but now I may have to give it a try to assemble the set with counterstamped ones. It certainly will be more difficult, but at least I have one of the harder ones out of the way already.

Digging deeper I found a possible connection to the name Parmelee:

http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/p/par...parmelee.htm

This is quite an extensive write up, but Frank Parmelee founded a horse drawn transfer business in Chicago in 1853. This service was basically a taxi of the day as they transferred people and packages from the railway to hotels and around other parts of the city. The business lasted into the 1960's, expanding over time to other cities such as Pittsburgh and New York. Later they switched from horse drawn transports to motor driven taxis. They seem to have been a large player in that field as they acquired at least partial ownerships in Yellow and Checker Cab.

Perhaps this piece was used in Chicago during the latter half of the 1800s as a means of spreading word and encouraging use of the Parmelee transfer business?
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 Posted 06/21/2021  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ apco1258 .... This MAY be the stamp of relative. Frank/Franklin MAY be the issuer's middle name. It's a lead but a far cry from making a positive, slam-dunk attribution. My personal favorite c/s attributions took me ten years or so to make a POSITIVE attribution. I had a PROBABLE issuer in mind, but it took me that long to find a matching stamp on one of the issuer's products! That was really a joyous, AH-HA moment for me.
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United States
61 Posts
 Posted 06/23/2021  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add apcol258 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very true about needing more info before making a hard conclusion. Either way it's still an interesting piece and hopefully someday I'll be able to connect some more dots. Thanks to everyone who commented!
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