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1991 P Washington. UFO

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 368Next Topic  
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 Posted 06/22/2021  8:38 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add RobO411 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Just curious how this happened and when?
Starting around K9 up to K12 on obverse. Check out next to left side of B and rim also.
Sorry for a couple extra photos.





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 Posted 06/22/2021  10:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SamCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like die attrition. Nothing worth a premium.
My best finds:
1996 DDO-001/FS-101: http://goccf.com/t/372066
1995 DDO-001/FS-101: http://goccf.com/t/376071#3225244
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1988-P "Reverse of '89": http://goccf.com/t/399390
Massive strike through error on 1957-P Jefferson nickel http://goccf.com/t/402781
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 Posted 06/22/2021  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks more like vending machine damage. Incuse marks are 99% of the time just damage on the coin. If it were die related, it would be raised. Scratches on a die (incuse) would leave raised lines on a coin. These just the opposite. Just PSD damage.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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 Posted 06/23/2021  12:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Greasy Fingers to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Odd how the top of the B is un-touched...
I'm by no means a pro and will never claim to be...just my 2 cents
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 Posted 06/23/2021  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RobO411 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All the letters are not affected. They're on top of the grooves.
I agree Greasy Fingers

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 Posted 06/23/2021  11:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well seeing these images on my computer, it looks like die scuffing on the fields. It if were die attrition, the rim would be moving towards the devices and taking over that area:


This is the same year of the damage to that area. It maybe an earlier die state. Just need to see if there are any markers that might tell me more of this story? No this is not the same die. Note the Example I posted is a fresher die state than the OP's coin.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
06/23/2021 11:34 am
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 Posted 06/23/2021  5:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RobO411 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks coop. Earlier I checked & saw info about attrition.

I'm sure I'm not going to make any sense but here goes.
Mine does looks like (rim?) has moved towards the devices but LIBE is on top of it?

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 Posted 06/23/2021  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's some form of peripheral die damage, although I'm not entirely confident it's a die attrition error.
Error coin writer and researcher.
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 Posted 06/24/2021  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RobO411 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you everyone for looking and comments
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 Posted 06/25/2021  6:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So Robert asked for an explanation of what I though happened. Here is the message back to him:

Quote:
In order to understand this, you have to visualize a die.(Coins are just opposite of a die) When you look at a die, the fields are the outside edge of the die. The devices/design are incuse into the die. The rim is created by a gutter on the outside edge of the die.

Note the step down from the outside edge of the I refer to this as the gutter. It molds the edge of the die to create a rim while both dies are inside of the collar:

So the anvil die and the collar are on the bottom of the strike, the hammer die is what strikes down during the strike. When the dies and the collar are all together at a small portion of the strike. The planchet is turned into a coin. The die rises and the feeder finger removes the new coin from the chamber. This can happen several times during a second. so it is quick. So What causes the marks that you are seeing on the coin? The fields are polished and made smooth, but if the die is damaged, the coins will start showing marks. On the area affected on your coin, the damage to the outside of the die would show just inside the rim, but not on the rim. You've seen die dents along the rim before haven't you?

Note how any damage to the fields of the die will show just inside the rim area. But on your coin, the rim is also affected. That tells me that not just the outside edge of the die, but also the gutter area was also affected. Leaving both areas affected. Possible even the collar could be affected. My guess what caused this were the feeder fingers were probably struck. Altering the shape of the fingers. These now scratching the collar, the die and the gutter area. Thus all of these areas were affected. But exactly how, we can say for sure. But that is my assumption. The number of coins affected by this? Hard to say. Was the mint working busy with something else or did only a few coins get affected? I've never seen the mint workers to see if they watch over just one die, or a row of dies. If the machine starts making noise, then the worker would give attention to the machine. So is what I think happened at the mint when your coin was struck. Going back on looking on the accident from the coins view. The die/dies, the collar and the gutter may have all been affected. Hope this helps. I should post this information on the page as well with the images.


Some other images I will add to this post:
die dents:



Possible a dropped die onto another die that cause a dent on the outside edge of the die, making this type of damage to the die, not all the coin struck with this die will also show this.

On this on it looks like the die was dropped onto the mint room floor, damaging the edge of the die altering the coins that is struck with this die.

This was my solution to what could have caused the marks. But others may have another theory. But that was what came to mind to me.

Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
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