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1869 Three Cent Coin You Vs. NGC (Old Fatty Holder)

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 06/23/2021  8:30 pm Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This little coin has some hidden surprises I think, thought it might be a good teaching example, what say you all? I'll reveal Friday night or Saturday morning depending on responses.

I'd love to hear your opinions on grade and any other comments on this coin, thanks for playing, on to the coin...




"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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 Posted 06/23/2021  9:00 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll start it with UNC Details Environmental Damage.
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
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 Posted 06/23/2021  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Rusted die?
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Australia
18736 Posts
 Posted 06/24/2021  12:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the field to the left side of the star there is a heavy die scratch showing up in relief; that makes this example a bit more interesting.
Because die scratch shows up in relief, I believe that the dark areas on the '111' are incuse, and are thus old impact damage or corrosion damage, but hard to say which, because they are on the '111' only, and not anywhere else on the coin.

Heavy patina may? have well hidden any hairlines or very minor nicks and scratches, so that makes it harder to grade above
Unc. -(Details).
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 Posted 06/24/2021  3:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
first thought was AU/UNC details corroded/rusted die is a good guess at the culprit
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 Posted 06/24/2021  4:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First thought was also UNC Details. As to the "hidden surprises," I'll refrain from guessing and sit back and see what tricks @westcoin has up his sleeve.
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 Posted 06/24/2021  5:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is this an off-metal strike? The devices look oddly different from most I've seen, almost like they struck up differently.
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 Posted 06/24/2021  10:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Au58. I did change my guess. Not gonna hide it so you can disqualify me. I just took a closer look. Earlier I was saying unc details.
Edited by Oldfordman
06/24/2021 11:21 pm
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 Posted 06/24/2021  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think most of the pitting is from rusted dies, which would not cause a details grade (although I'm not sure what's going on along the rim at 7:00 on the obverse). I'd say MS-61 straight.
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 Posted 06/26/2021  02:05 am  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Come on CCF gang how about a few more comments? I will give some hints, the coin is in a straight graded holder (not details), so that means try again if you thought that. Nobody has come close to the grade at all, y'all are really missing the mark here.


Quote:
sel_69l: I believe that the dark areas on the '111' are incuse, and are thus old impact damage or corrosion damage, but hard to say which, because they are on the '111' only, and not anywhere else on the coin.


You are correct they are incuse marks inward, and most likely from a poor planchet strip.



Quote:
Oldfordman: Not gonna hide it so you can disqualify me.


Anyone can change their comments or add to them, I don't care. This is about the fun of the guessing, using your brain and intelligence along with some cognitive thinking, there is no prize awarded, other than bragging rights if you get it correct before anyone else.

Put on those thinking caps because this one is a doozy, I promise!
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, EAC Member #6202, NBS Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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 Posted 06/26/2021  03:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikev50 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i am thinking proof in poor condition---
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 Posted 06/26/2021  07:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add apcol258 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems to have a slight hint of wear. I'll say AU 58. The obverse date placement doesn't match any I could find for either proof or business strikes this year. As others mentioned it appears to be an off metal strike. Has to be a pattern piece as it can't be a normal strike based on the date placement.
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 Posted 06/26/2021  08:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Counterfeit? If it's a counterfeit it's good as the only difference is the date placement is off 1869 the star pointed to the space between 8 and 6, the AM spacing looks larger but I can't be certain. Other than the weird wear on the III the back looks correct, even the right most I has the slight upward curve.

Otherwise I would pass looks like AU details corroded. This is NGC we are talking about 2 coins I purchased in their slabs were details and not graded as such. So this one could be graded wrong also.
Edited by hfjacinto
06/26/2021 08:49 am
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 Posted 06/26/2021  1:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i'll take another stab at it. I dont think its a pattern or proof nor do I think its counterfeit. I cant see them stamping these on a flawed planchet so I'm going with MS62
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 Posted 06/26/2021  1:39 pm  Show Profile   Check GrapeCollects's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GrapeCollects to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll go PR62 than... I'm at a loss on this one lol
My best finds: 1999-WAM:http://goccf.com/t/332161 1988-RDV-6:http://goccf.com/t/335954#2873459 1986-Off-center: http://goccf.com/t/335952
1999 WAM #2:http://goccf.com/t/338710&whichpage=1
1981 Double Struck In Collar: http://goccf.com/t/350199&whichpage=1
ANA id: 3194067
My Type Set: https://www.NGCcoin.com/registry/co...sets/236574/
If you want to buy something or sell something or just talk, shoot me a PM!
Pillar of the Community
United States
3247 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2021  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
With only 600 proof coins issued, I can't imagine them releasing one from a possibly rusted die and an off center strike. So I'll guess again AU-55.
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