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Canadian Coin News - Gord Nichols Counterfeit Column

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 Posted 07/07/2021  12:54 am Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I just read the article in Canadian Coin News on counterfeit coin collector Gord Nichols...

All I can say is "boo-hoo"... (yes, I am being sarcastic here)

I am glad Mike Marshall stuck to his guns and told Canadian Coin News that regardless who the collector is, these things should never be for resale. It was written as quite the lame sob story... Gord Nichols should have darned well known what he was getting into, and what to expect for an answer from the Bank of Canada and others. There is a good reason why Colonial Acres and Geoffrey Bell Auctions won't accept black cabinet collections for consignment.

In the end, Gord defaced the coins and sent them to the RCMP, and then laments about them being "history". If history was so important, why did he not send his collection to the Bank of Canada Currency Collection (by contacting the curator, David Bergeron, directly), so they could be preserved for future study, without any danger of harming future collectors... instead of destroying them and leaving the hobby in a huff.

Good job Mike.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 07/09/2021  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Check 47P7's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sure looks like I am missing something here.
Since I canceled my Coin news subscription, I guess I have to rely on some of you CoinNews subscribers to keep everyone up to snaps.
by posting here.
last time I checked, possession and dealing in Canadian Counterfeits is a criminal offense any way you twist it.
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 Posted 08/02/2021  11:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SSP- Ottawa - You could not be more wrong in my opinion about the contentions leveled at Gordon Nichols in the CCN article by Mike Marshall.

Mike comes across as a vigilante and self anointed bully in the way he handled Gordon who has for years been disabled by health and metal issues that have kept him out of work for 20 years.

Marshall twists the law in Canada and elsewhere when he says that all counterfeits are alike. They absolutely are NOT. In his own very limited recitation he indicates that the term counterfeit applies only to current coins. And specifically in Gordon's case to current coins of Canada. Ancient Contemporary counterfeit coins have been collected for hundreds of years and are a clear subset of ancient numismatics.

Counterfeit Contemporary Colonial coins are of great interest and all of the big auction houses in the US and in the World such as Stacks, Heritage, Cayon, etc allow them.

Mike Marshall's one category catch all for counterfeits does all collectors of LEGAL non-circulating, contemporary counterfeit coins a disservice. His failure to recognize the difference between Contemporary Circulating Counterfeits and Numismatic Forgeries (first introduced to the collecting community by Charles Larson in 2004) is as outdated an approach as it is ill informed and incorrect.

I would expect any reasonable person to see the difference in the danger level posed by millions of worthless Chinese NF types versus the relatively few CCC types that appear on eBay. Why didn't Marshall if he was so worthy of praise simply let Gordon know how to handle his collection instead of threatening to expose him to the authorities and get him thrown in prison? Have you no human feelings at all for someone who is subject to severe bouts of depression that have driven him out of the workforce? Gordon is by all definitions a "handicapped" person. His treatment at the hands of this bully is completely reprehensible.

The comment "Boo-Hoo" says it all as far as I am concerned for you as well. I hope someday when you are down someone comes along and kicks you in the head with an unfeeling boot. You need to know how it feels to Gordon!
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
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 Posted 08/03/2021  12:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the article in four parts. Please read this and see if comments are actually true. Are ALL Counterfeits illegal in Canada as indicated or are ONLY counterfeits of current coins illegal.





My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
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 Posted 08/03/2021  02:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Marshall twists the law in Canada and elsewhere when he says that all counterfeits are alike. They absolutely are NOT. In his own very limited recitation he indicates that the term counterfeit applies only to current coins. And specifically in Gordon's case to current coins of Canada. Ancient Contemporary counterfeit coins have been collected for hundreds of years and are a clear subset of ancient numismatics.


This is the crux of the issue. The notion that what embodies a counterfeit is "black and white" is not the case; there is a nuance to it that is well-known even to collectors of colonial-era coinage (the recent renewed interest in contemporary counterfeit British halfpence and farthings comes to mind.)

Now to be fair, it is easy to make this distinction when dealing with coins dating back to the 18th century, etc, and the line does become blurred when you are dealing with more recent series that may be actively counterfeited in the modern era. However, these are still easily distinguished from modern fakes by experts on these series, like Gord Nichols.

Marshall's question, "How old does a counterfeit have to be before it's contemporary?" is confusing, but I take it he is referring in some way to the arbitrary nature of how old a contemporary counterfeit needs to be in order to be acceptable to trade. This is certainly a good point (if that is what his question is referring to), but again, I believe the issue is far from "black and white." One can envision a time in the future when contemporary counterfeit 19th and 20th-century silver will be bought and sold by collectors without question, akin to counterfeits of certain colonial series today. By taking a black and white approach and renouncing all these pieces as "counterfeits" a large area of numismatic history and research is eliminated. It is important that a distinction be made between "contemporary counterfeits" and "numismatic forgeries" as stated by swamperbob.

Admittedly, I have little knowledge of what comprises "current" currency and whether or not the pieces imaged in the CCN article fall into this category in a legal sense. The demonstrated confusion between contemporary counterfeits and forgeries (for more modern issues) demands that collectors and sellers of CC's must tread lightly. However, it is apparent that Nichols' intent in dealing with these pieces was far from one of malice or deception. I guess my final takeaway is that it is unfortunate that this seemingly disproportionate negativity has been focused at Nichols and has resulted in the loss of a great numismatic mind for the hobby.

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 Posted 08/03/2021  02:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


After reading the article above and being a close friend of Gordon's, I believe the characterization by Marshall is grossly overstated. I could locate absolutely no convictions for sale of counterfeit coins that were properly described under Canadian law anywhere in Canada. The average conviction for counterfeiting involves paper money manufacture and distribution and typically the face values far exceed $1,000. Just as in the US. There is a prosecutorial burden in cases of counterfeiting that requires the prosecution to prove that the intent of the party charged was fraudulent. That intent is clearly missing in this case and Marshall should have been aware of that fact given he is a self appointed expert on Canadian law as it applies to non-circulating counterfeit coins.

There is NO reason to treat an honest collector in such harsh terms without any concern for the mental health and fragility of the person involved. I am therefor asking all concerned parties who believe that Gordon Nichols was treated unfairly in this instance to indicate their willingness to attach their name to the following letter which I intend to send to Jesse Robitaille at CCN to express an alternate viewpoint and to chastise in no uncertain terms, Mr. Marshall for his actions in such a reprehensible effort to destroy Gordon Nichols.

To whom it may concern,

I have known Gordon Nichols of St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada for over 20 years and I consider him to be a personal friend. We first made acquaintance on eBay in 1999 or 2000 when we bid against each other on several Counterfeit Mexican 8 reales. I know Gordon to be an honest person who has a genuine passion for the history of numismatics and the topic of Contemporary Circulating Counterfeit (CCC) coins. Gordon and I were collaborators on the 2014 book "Counterfeit Portrait Eight-Reales".

Recently, Gordon has given up coin collecting as a result of an insensitive attack by a self appointed expert on counterfeit coins that believes all counterfeits are a serious present threat to numismatics. This person and all those in the hobby that believe something similar err when they fail to distinguish between the two distinctively different kinds of counterfeit coins that actually exist. These can be classified by their underlying motivation for production. I would point to the terminology introduced by Charles Larson in his book "Numismatic Forgery" published in 2004. Charles Larson addressed a topic that is near and dear to every collector of counterfeit coins and should be of absolute interest to every coin collector and coin dealer. Mr. Larson made the clear distinction between counterfeits that were made to circulate as money contemporaneously with the originals and counterfeits that were made specifically to deceive coin collectors. He calls these extremely dangerous types made to fool collectors "Numismatic Forgeries" (NF). I adapted his nomenclature to our book.

When I was training to be a coin authenticator in the mid 1970s, I was first introduced to this distinction by Don Romano and his father Corrado at Worthy Coin Company in Boston Mass. They were coin dealers with many decades of experience in the business beginning in 1934. Back then there was no real name to distinguish between counterfeit coins made to circulate and coins made for intentional deception of collectors. However, even then there was a small group of dedicated collectors of the CCC types willing to pay a premium for many items. The second type however was seen by the Romano's as a growing problem in the business. The NF types are coins that should be identified and destroyed (keeping only one reference copy for later use in authentication and specifically to use in educating others about the topic).

The coins that are now flooding into numismatics from China and elsewhere are the real serious danger to the business and the hobby. They look enough like original coins to fool collectors at almost every level who inadvertently purchase them for $1 or more. That is money they will never recover on these essentially worthless pieces of scrap metal. This is the flow, the NF types, that needs to be stopped. I agree with Mike Marshall and people who express similar opinions only that far.

Where I do not agree is that the counterfeits made of coins at the same time as the originals were in general circulation pose few if any genuine dangers to collectors when they are properly identified and described. The reason for that is usually simple economics. The vast majority (but admittedly not all) CCC coins are worth more than the genuine coins they mimic, if both coins are in the same condition. This premium applies to all coins sold above melt value levels. Coins in the "melt" value categories are the only CCC types that are at times worth less than their genuine counterparts. CCC types are also clearly are rarer than genuine coins as anyone who collects counterfeits knows. The reason for that is two fold. First it is based on the fact that counterfeiters copy common not rare coins and they do not produce pristine MS grade copies. That is so they do not stand out in circulation. Ask any successful forger that question and you will get that same answer. Collectors with experience in counterfeiting know that issues of coins that appeared for only one or two years are rarely encountered by collectors as CCC types. The same thing applies to rare mint marks and other high value collectables. The example employed by Marshall of a Canadian 1875 H 10 cent coin is NEVER going to be encountered as a CCC type. The argument is totally specious because that simply does not happen. He has created a "strawman". The normal circulating counterfeit is a common coin often only of melt value unless it is found in superior grades (above Fine or Very Fine). The second reason is that while these CCC types circulated they were identified and destroyed more often than they were saved. Debased silver CCC coins with assays over 50% of the original value of genuine coins which are described in Riddell's 1845 publication "Monograph of the Silver Dollar, Good and Bad" are now generally very rare to non-existent. The debased silver types were melted to recover the actual metal value when silver was legal money. The non-silver bearing CCC types made of German Silver (containing no elemental silver content) and the silver plated copper counterfeits are comparatively abundant. However, even those non-silver CCC types sell on average for more than genuine coins in similar grades.

Far from being the great danger that Marshall implies, I find that CCC types are actually interesting and relatively rare examples of coins used by our ancestors in day to day commerce. They certainly should not be destroyed based on the musings of one man.

I do concur, that counterfeits of coins that are in current circulation pose a threat to commerce, but I fail to see how anyone could consider a Victorian era silver coin Canadian or otherwise to be a "current" coin which could possibly threaten commerce.

My last job before retiring from authentication completely was for eBay as a member of the Coin Watch Committee (CWC) which reported to the Trust and Safety group. There I joined a distinguished panel of 8 experts in numismatic authentication. We were unpaid and membership to the Committee was strictly by invitation of eBay management based on previous credentials and experience in authentication. I was selected to replace a person that resigned from the committee who was the single expert in World Coins. The other members were specialists in various areas of Numismatics mostly US coinage varieties. In my time on the CWC we were deluged by the NF type of counterfeit. The CCC types were never a serious issue and were rarely acted upon unless they were improperly described as genuine. The consensus of the CWC was that CCC types were collectable as long as they were legal to own - demonetized and/or no longer circulating and used as actual current money.

On the legality of CCC and NF types coins I have consulted with several lawyers before and after my involvement with eBay. As Mr. Marshall says, current coinage is normally seen by authorities as contraband. However, there is a major difference between the letter of the law and how the law is actually enforced when it comes to sales of one coin at a time. The Numismatic Community recently saw news of a seizure of NF coins that were produced and shipped from China. They were seized when they arrived in the US. Thousands of coins were involved with a face value of thousands of US dollars and many were monetized but non-circulating issues - mostly US silver dollars bearing dates before 1935. Clearly this was an illegal shipment that was a threat to collectors of coins. However, my experience with eBay and as an authenticator for a Raleigh, NC coin dealer gives me a far different view of the realities of enforcement. In order to get the attention of the local police, the "crime" must first rise to a felony level (over $1,000 of face value) and fraud must be demonstrable - otherwise the police have no interest in pursuing the case or arresting offenders. In fact in the case of a sale of over $10,000 worth of US silver coins that were worthless NF types - the first question police asked was "How do we know they are fraudulent?" They did not care if the dealer or a professional authenticator indicated they were counterfeit, they only wanted to know how THEY would know. If the person attempting to sell these coins had not been subject to an outstanding warrant from another jurisdiction, the police would have let the criminal walk out of the shop with his fake coins. That is an actual real life case. So why in the world come down so hard on an individual like Gordon?

As a member of the CWC, I maintained daily records coins including the numbers of CCC and NF types appearing for sale in the World Coins category and within the area of my own interest the Mexican 8R counterfeits. I also made records of other specific eBay violations not of interest here. CCC types appeared on average fewer than 1% as often as NF types. This includes CCC types properly identified as well as those that were improperly described (often because the sellers were not aware of what they were selling). I always contacted first time offenders (I tracked all offenders by eBay ID name) and allowed them to correct their posts BEFORE seeking the termination of their auctions. I did that out of fairness and common courtesy to the seller and I did it with the concurrence of my handler, a manager at eBay. Even eBay recognized that sale of CCC types was not a threat to the hobby.

When dealing with counterfeits of all types there is no place for vigilantes who do not understand the Numismatic Business. All counterfeits are not the same. A Roman Fouree is not treated like a Slavey Petrov replica made a few years ago. A colonial counterfeit Half Penny is not treated like a copy made recently. And certainly a no longer circulating counterfeit of a silver coin actually made during the reign of Queen Victoria is simply not the same as a Chinese NF made last week. Reports to the CWC during my tenure of properly described CCC types were normally voted down and were NOT removed. NF types and all other frauds were terminated at a rate of up to 2,000 cases a day often without an eBay member making a formal report to Trust and Safety. This was because at that time the eBay managers were conversant with numismatics and understood the simple difference between CCC and NF counterfeits.

Since the CWC was disbanded in 2013 under threat of international lawsuit and eBay reverted to Caveat Emptor as a defense for all dealings things have changed. All managers were rotated to categories they have no working expertise in. All of the experts were let go. But the underlying concept that there are two different classifications of counterfeit coins has not been changed. A bully like Mr. Marshall appears to be able to get some auctions cancelled but he often does so to the detriment to the individuals involved both sellers and buyers. Gordon Nichols selling a CCC coin to another counterfeit collector is a fair transaction - painting him as a criminal on a par with the Chinese Numismatic Forgers is a great travesty of justice.

In 2013 the terminations that Marshall so gleefully reports would in some cases never have occurred. That was how it was and that is how it should be now. Remove genuine serious threats to the numismatic community as a whole and leave individuals like Gordon Nichols alone. He is a threat to absolutely no one. Shame on any mean spirited individuals who act as vigilantes to puff up their self image and injure people like Gordon and drive him away from coin collecting.

Robert Gurney
Retired President of Swamperbob Associates
Hope Mills, NC

If you agree with this and care to add your name to it let me know.
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My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
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 Posted 08/03/2021  04:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
blargish I absolutely agree with what you are saying. The topic is far from cut and dry. My specialty covers the 8 Reales of Mexico from roughly 1770 to 1897. It is my contention that it is relatively easy to distinguish contemporary circulating counterfeits from numismatic forgeries in the 19th century, provided you are familiar with the history of both. I do it all the time.

In the 19th century there was an industrialization of minting that can be traced also into the industrialization of counterfeiting. Sheffield plate was developed in the late 1770's but not perfected until about 1796 in the UK. It became the first of the industrialized methods used to create planchets for counterfeiting. That method flourished until it was effectively displaced by German Silver first introduced in 1835. German silver was the state of the art until it was displaced by electroplating with silver in the late 1840s. In the same way, the progress made in die manufacturing can be traced from hand engraving to full hubs in a period of roughly 100 years ending in the 1820s in the UK and France and the 1830's in the US. Casting as a method of counterfeit manufacture began with green sand in the later 1700s, moved to plaster of paris in the 1820's and 30's and then electro-typing followed by impact transfer and spark erosion. The actual use of image transfer processes developed in the 1850s.

From the variety of manufacturing methods the 19th century stands out as the period of conversion from middle ages methods to genuinely modern methods of both minting and forgery. What better place to study the history of minting and the history of counterfeiting at the same time.

As you note, there are no specific number of years needed to define what is a contemporary counterfeit. I am sure Marshall knows this very well, he is trying to belittle what are essentially very solid lines of reasoning. Like using the example of a very rare coin and pretending it could exist as a CCC type.

The area is so gray that I don't recall a single instance where any collector has ever been charged under a counterfeit statute for maintaining a "black cabinet" or for selling CCC counterfeits as long as they are properly described. The needed intent to defraud is simply missing and without it no prosecutor will act on the case and no collector will ever go to jail as a result.

That is what is perfectly black and white to me.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
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 Posted 08/03/2021  07:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Mike Marshal, in my opinion, has been a lifesaver for the Canadian Numismatic community. He has been working for years with the RCMP, local authorities, the RCM, and Ebay to remove all these current and semi-current forgeries from commercial sale. 7 or so years ago, Mike worked closely with an assigned party within the RCMP and the two of them put a huge dent in all the crap that had inundated into Ebay and local auction houses. Then that RCMP officer was transferred and active participation or interest from the RCMP ceased. Both had tried diligently to try to get both the RCM and the RCNA interested enough to make an effort toward assisting in a mutual effort. Neither raised a hand to help the hobby

Mike went in through the back door to try to stop all the forgeries from entering EBay. He was able to work through PayPal to stop payments on any Ebay auction that was selling fake counterfeit Canadian coins and it worked. Sales dropped to minimal levels and fellow collector friends of Mike and others picked up the ball to try to end the fake Chinese and Eastern Europe crap loading onto our shores. Mike's efforts were so well known for his successes that he was contacted by the US Congress for his assistance into preparing a US law that would make dealing in recent counterfeits a serious offence. Mike was given an award and monetary thanks by the US Govt for what he had done. Mike still presents 3-4 educational seminars, usually in conjunction with a large coin show and/or convention here in Canada.

You two in your postings want to castigate Mike because he caused your friend some trouble or ill will. Well, I and others, feel the same way for you guys sharpening your sticks against someone who is only trying to clean up our hobby. If the RCM and RCNA would have gotten off their butts and tried to do something about this problem 5-6 years ago, neither of these fellow Canadians would be feeling hot water boiling around them. Likewise, if the RCMP would have continued their efforts to clean up this hobby, then none of this would happen. Mike's concern was with modern counterfeits of Canadian coinages from 1858 on ... not the ancient or "contemporary" counterfeits from hundreds of years ago. You two, swamperbob and blargish, should get your facts straight about what Mike did and his intentions. Mike's efforts and his friends' efforts to clean up the hobby have been plastered all over the popular Canadian coin sites for years. But it took an article in the CCN and a friend with lots of fake coins he was trying to sell to get you two out of your chairs and onto the keyboards. You two should be ashamed for writing such drivel about a situation that you clearly haven't done much study on, nor what Mike's efforts were about. It had nothing to do with ancient counterfeits and "true" contemporary counterfeits .. it was cleaning up the current collecting hobby. You owe Mike Marshal an apology, not contempt.
Edited by okiecoiner
08/03/2021 07:51 am
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 Posted 08/03/2021  08:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add blargish to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You two in your postings want to castigate Mike because he caused your friend some trouble or ill will. Well, I and others, feel the same way for you guys sharpening your sticks against someone who is only trying to clean up our hobby... You two, swamperbob and blargish, should get your facts straight about what Mike did and his intentions. Mike's efforts and his friends' efforts to clean up the hobby have been plastered all over the popular Canadian coin sites for years. But it took an article in the CCN and a friend with lots of fake coins he was trying to sell to get you two out of your chairs and onto the keyboards. You two should be ashamed for writing such drivel about a situation that you clearly haven't done much study on, nor what Mike's efforts were about.


okiecoiner, I ask that you please re-read my post. I am friends with neither Mike Marshall nor Gord Nichols; I have not even met either of them! I was merely offering my point of view on the issue at hand, from the perspective of a collector.

I have come across both names in my numismatic study and I am especially well aware of all of the good work that Marshall has done which, as you say, has been "plastered" all over sites like coincommunity.

But again, I ask you read my post before stating that I am in any way trying to "castigate" Marshall.



Will

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 Posted 08/03/2021  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
blargish ... yes, I reread your post and I may have somewhat misinterpreted your statements in my own mind. Mike M was merely stating the law as written in Canada and "other people" are trying to interpret what he meant. I certainly don't think that the CNN article is at all accurate and not leaning to one side. If people want to exempt historically contemporary counterfeits from collectors like Mr Nichols, then let them do do. People can't shout out to Mr Marshal that he is a villain just because he's letting people know what the law actually is up here. If the Canadian government wants to lose millions of dollars revenue by turning their backs on a huge problem, then keep things as they are and see that half of the coins that you find in a $50 roll of toonies in the Toronto are fake. Also watch all of the "fake" coins passing their way through EBay and having newbies and the uneducated taken advantage of. I find it almost laughable that "swamperbob" laid out his credentials about being on the Ebay team that looked at these fakes ... they did nothing. Mike tried to go through them years ago and Ebay waved it off. Only by then going through PayPal was he able to get any action. Ebay acted ONLY when they saw that PayPal was not going to send the money would they remove the auctions. Ebay cared ONLY when it was going to cost them money, not for the legality of their transactions. I'd love to hear some of the transcripts of swamperbob's Ebay meetings.
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 Posted 08/03/2021  09:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add papeldog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I stand behind Mike Marshal and his efforts to stop the counterfeit coins coming into Canada and the hobby as well as counterfeit coins that are minted in Canada.

There is no room in the hobby for fake coins, these people who make said coins and or distribute them should be put in jail for fraud and minting or selling them, it should be a stiff jail term with no parole.

I also feel that people who support such actions should also be penalized.

Why would anyone want to pay big dollars for something that has no value or meaning other than to rip some unsuspected collector off with a counterfeit coin that ends up being useless to your collection.

I salute Mike for his efforts in trying to clean up the hobby of cheats and counterfeiters it must be very frustrating when he reads stuff like in above comments where some people support the robbery and cheating going on in our hobby thank you Mike.

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 Posted 08/03/2021  10:31 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why didn't Marshall if he was so worthy of praise simply let Gordon know how to handle his collection instead of threatening to expose him to the authorities and get him thrown in prison?


You are assuming that Canadian Coin News asked Mike that sort of question. I doubt they had. Mike most likely answered specific questions that were asked of him. Canadian law is also pretty clear with respect to decimal currency (post-1858).

You are also assuming Mike was able to contact Gordon directly to discuss this issue at hand. Again, I doubt that is how this was handled by Canadian Coin News.

The question I have is: at any point did Gordon contact Mike Marshall directly on advice how to handle and dispose of such a collection?


Quote:
The comment "Boo-Hoo" says it all as far as I am concerned for you as well. I hope someday when you are down someone comes along and kicks you in the head with an unfeeling boot. You need to know how it feels to Gordon!


Frankly, anyone who destroys a collection that has historical value (in anyone's perspective) instead of donating to a museum for future study (which is legal by Canadian law), has ZERO sympathy from me. I see dinosaur fossils and mineral specimens destroyed all the time, by folks who have the attitude "if I can't have them - nobody can"...

As for the personal nature of your comment, you'll need to do a better job than that at insulting me. My philosophy is simple: you lie in the bed you make (things you can control) and you play the hand you are given (things beyond your control).
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 08/03/2021  11:06 am  Show Profile   Check 47P7's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 47P7 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
100% agree with Okie and Papeldog.
The facts are very clear.
Nobody has done more in Canada to combat Forgeries than MM.
Whoever does have doubts, just google him!!!

Swamperbob
You might want to start getting out of bed and wake up !!!!!!!
Illegal is illegal and if the law says it is illegal.. so it is!
Possession is possession collecting Forgeries of Canadian money is simply illegal. I need to stop now or I get seriously mad.
Just do not understand how an "intelligent and knowledgable" numismat does not or does not want to understand these facts and argues against it with someting not relevant.
perhaps I understood it wrong?
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 Posted 08/03/2021  11:45 am  Show Profile   Check nss-52's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nss-52 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
eBay's policy:
What is the policy?
Replica coins are not allowed
Counterfeit or altered coins and currency are not allowed


There are no exceptions listed. No exceptions for coins marked COPY. No exceptions for "contemporary" (old) counterfeits. No exceptions if the seller admits the coin is not genuine.

However, not being able to sell on eBay is not the end of the hobby for counterfeit collectors!
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 Posted 08/03/2021  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
swamperbob ... I think that you, by now, know how wrong you were in your comments about Mike. It is admirable that you are trying to stick up for a disabled friend but I, too, am 80% military disabled after 31 years in. However, I don't have the luxury of having a friend write emails/web posts trying to say that it's OK for me to break the law. Unless Mr Nichols has been living in a cave for the last 5 years and his friends there as well, he would know that Canada has been inundated with fake counterfeit coinage. It has been discussed heavily, and sometimes nearly daily, that it is against Canadian law to own or try to sell counterfeit monies. I guess that Mr Nickols (and his friends) thought that it was OK as long as he was making money with it. It has been discussed on every web coin site that covers Canadian coinage including 2 of the subforums here, the PCGS site, the Cointalk site, and Coins and Canada. It has been in CCN as well. Every single mention explained what should be done with the coins. Likewise, when Mr Nichols saw that he could no longer make money at it, he could have donated the coins to the Local coin club for education, to the National museum, or to people doing actual research and books about them. If still in doubt, look at what has recently been distributed:
https://cameltoetoonies.ca/ I guess he felt better destroying them and entering martyrdom in some people's eyes.
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570 Posts
 Posted 08/03/2021  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add t_y to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sided with Mike since the beginning. Will side with him till the end.
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