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2021 Kennedy Half Dollars Being Released Into Circulation Robbing Collector

 
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Valued Member

United States
57 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2021  10:20 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add coinnewcomer1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
As reported by Coin World more 2021 Kennedy P and D half dollar coins are being gotten from banks when collectors request boxes of halves. LInk to article here - https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...-circulation

The sad thing is the US Mint is ripping off collectors who buy these at a premium from the US Mint website. THe issue may be partly the Federal Reserve's fault as they have authorized this. No word yet from the US Mint though.

I purchase rolls of the American Innovation Dollars and do check on the sales. Unfortunately the US Mint does NOT provide production amount for these dollar coins - I guess you have to trust that the mintages are based solely on sales to collectors.

But what should alarm collectors is they did this with the Kennedy halves in 2018 but to a less degree. If you check the production report for 2021 you at least see the discrepancy between the sales reports of rolls and bags and actual mintages which are close to 13 million now for combined P and D - nit too far from the mintages of the Kennedys in the last 2 years they were known to be in circulation.

For me, I will be watching carefully of any reports of American Innovation Dollars in BU rolls suddenly appearing at banks. I think this is NOT likely as the Mint is trying to reduce its stores of dollar coins.But I would love it if a show such as 60 minutes did an expose of such practices.
Edited by coinnewcomer1
07/16/2021 10:22 pm
Valued Member
United States
365 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2021  10:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add halfamind to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I knew something was up when those 2021 Kennedy half dollar mintage figures kept creeping up to levels unseen for a couple of decades.
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United States
178 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2021  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HappyHippo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I understand what you are saying. I have an enrollment of the P&D half dollar rolls. I really don't expect them to be valuable but I like large size coins. I've never taken them out of the rolls. But if the mint made a bunch and the collector's didn't buy them all, I don't see a problem with the mint putting them in circulation. It is similar to a business putting products that didn't sell out on clearance.

I don't fully understand why the mint feels the need to put more coins in circulation, because a person rarely sees one in their change. I guess they are hoarded by everyone and so there is a shortage.
Edited by HappyHippo
07/16/2021 10:55 pm
Valued Member
United States
57 Posts
 Posted 07/16/2021  11:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinnewcomer1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
HappyHippo - I understand your point but the mintages are 12.8 million. Basically the collectors who paid a premium for them could have waited and tried to get these at face value. Granted your arguement is quite valid, collectors buy the Annual Mintsets for the sake of convenience and to save time. I do get the Mint sets yet I am finding I still keep a coin or two from the year I have or will get a Mint set quite often. I guess it is the challenge of trying to find one out in the wild versus getting it prepped for you in a Mint set.

Anyway, I still think it is unfair to Kennedy collectors --- it might have been nice to have given a quick alert or forewarning that the US Mint and Federal Reserve do have the right to issue addition coins for circulation even if they traditionally have been NIFC ones. Plus getting a few rolls from the mint mailed directly to you does increase modestly the chances you will get better coins than a monster box shipped to and handled by a bank.
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United Kingdom
9198 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2021  03:55 am  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Exactly the same thing happens in the UK - we often have no idea which coins are being issued for circulation in a given year, so people who buy BU commemorative 50p or 2 coins from The Royal Mint are sometimes very annoyed when the same coins are available for face value several months later.
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 Posted 07/17/2021  09:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Anyway, I still think it is unfair to Kennedy collectors ---


But so is life!

But the mint exists NOT to make coin collectors happy (very obvious every year). They exist, as any business does, to make a profit and keep their jobs going. They have a marketing department to try to make good public relations (...oh well).

When they make too much to sell, I think as coin collectors we would rather see the coins released than wasted by being destroyed?

And...I am a Kennedy half specialist...so I understand.

The ridiculous price hikes on silver proof sets was not "fair" either (called price gouging) to Kennedy collectors. So I cancelled my subscriptions to the silver proof sets, which I was getting only for the half dollar. I will get just the half on eBay a year later and not spend near the money.

The slabbed Half dollar No FG farce: Download No-FG half vs. Grading Company Claims report here:
https://tinyurl.com/yalrstjz or higher resolution version: https://tinyurl.com/y7rksxu8

- How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash?
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 Posted 07/17/2021  4:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But the mint exists NOT to make coin collectors happy (very obvious every year)

What does the mint do to make collectors happy? Only the w quarters come to mind.
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1139 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2021  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nick10 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Historically the mint has produced coinage to meet the demands of commerce. It sounds like the quantity of available circulating half dollars has declined to the point that the mint shipped new ones to banks. As you may recall, a similar thing happened with the SBA dollar in 1999.
Valued Member
United States
453 Posts
 Posted 07/17/2021  6:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add captaincoffee to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, but don't see anything to complain about here. Maybe what you are talking about hurts speculators, but it doesn't harm collectors in any way. For both the Kennedy half and the Innovation dollars, the website clearly states there is no mintage limit for these coins. They can produce a billion on 31 Dec and you have nothing to complain about. Did they send you a letter promising not to release any into circulation?
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 Posted 07/19/2021  12:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have never bought bags/rolls from the mint. For many years I would buy the half dollars singly at coins shows (recently I have been buying mint sets). The dealers (who bought bags/rolls to grade the gems and sell the rest) made their money back and then some. Everyone wins.
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 Posted 07/19/2021  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Big-Kingdom to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the innovation dollar coins will not be put to circulation by the mint or the fed because the legislation doesn't allow for that to happen, unlike the Kennedy half dollars. When supply of them at the fed gets low, they tell the mint to make more and restock. some years this doesn't happen, but any year it COULD happen. Because theuy were meant to circulate in the legislation that authorized them.

The innovation dollars weren't written that way and would have never passed had the Fed needed to take a few hundred million of them like they had with the Sac Dollars or Susan B Anthony dollars or the Presidential dollars.

Nope. IF the fed requested small dollar coins, it would be the NA dollar coin that they include in the Mint and proof sets each year, which may not be made every year for circulation release but the legislation intended them for circulation.
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 Posted 07/19/2021  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good points to remember, BK.

The Kennedy half dollar became NFIC by default when the Fed stopped ordering them. They then become circulating by default when an order is placed.
Valued Member
United States
57 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2021  12:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinnewcomer1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For American Innovation business strikes and proof sets there is one mechanism the mintages can be left to climb with any checks such as limited time of sale: the Mint Director doesn't end the sale of these until the term determined for issuance of AI Dollars for all states and territories. Go to the US Mint site and when you click the info about AI dollars there is alink to the original legislation which stipulates this. The only product limited in mintage are the Reverse Proof sets. So less leeway than the Kennedys regarding how much of these are produced, but there are mechanism to allow the mintages to climb by the Mint directot simply keeping products for sale on the site till the series is scheduled to end.

Per the legislation https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th...ll/770/text:

``(5) Treatment as numismatic items.--For purposes of
sections 5134 and 5136, all $1 coins minted under this
subsection shall be considered to be numismatic items.
``(6) Issuance of numismatic coins.--The Secretary may mint
and issue such number of $1 coins of each design selected under
this subsection in uncirculated and proof qualities as the
Secretary determines to be appropriate.
``(7) Termination of program.--The issuance of coins under
this subsection shall terminate when one innovation, an
individual innovator, or a group of innovators, from each State,
the District of Columbia, and each territory has been honored
and may not be resumed except by an Act of Congress.''.


THe Kennedys as has been commented, were not NIFC coins but were circulating coins determined by the government to not be put into circulation, but there was no legislation to my knowledge that prohibited the coin being reintroduced into circulation. The American Innovation Dollar is more specific - it si a numismatic product that, yet, is legal tender and certain strikes can be sold until the program terminates (2032). This is why when shopping for business strike and proof sets of AI dollars you can find years as far back as 2018. I don't think it is a good idea to leave the decision to the Mint director but so far mintages of the proofs have remained below 300,000 to date and all but the 2018 coins, the business strikes have stayed below 500,000 from each individual mint.

I wonder if the AI dollars are simply an experiment to limiot production of golden dollars while satisfying collectors' interest in golden dollars. In the legislation it specifies that this is not to supplant the Native American dollars and that these dollars should be continued to be produced.

As I suggested in an earlier post, it would have behooved the Mint for collectors' and taxpayers' sake to have had some legislation specify the new terms of Kennedy halves when it was pulled from circulation in 2002. It could have informed all that the government would not be beholden permanently to have Kennedys as solely NIFC coins.
New Member
United States
3 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2021  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add AdmiralK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Each week my local bank puts in an order for a box of halves, and I pick them up later that week. For the past 3 weeks, each box contained new 2021P coins. At first I thought there may be some value here if the coins are truly NIFC, but after reading the other posts, I think I'll just exchange two of the 3 boxes and keep exchanging them until the spigot dries up on 2021Ps.
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 Posted 07/20/2021  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They wont truly be nifc.
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 Posted 07/23/2021  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John77 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ugh... we have 2018 happening all over again.

CRH Nickeloholic. 1,300,000 nickels searched in five years! Already have found THREE complete Jefferson sets!
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