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Help Grading Proof Florins (Sheldon Scale)

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 520Next Topic  
New Member
Australia
15 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  01:26 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Coinanthebarb to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello,

I am looking for some help grading 2 proof florins on the Sheldon scale. One is from 1958, while the other is from 1959. Would it be worth sending these off to PCGS? I have had Max Stern in Melbourne look at them and they valued them at:
'58 - $575 AUD
'59 - $675 AUD

I think this is what the Renniks guide values them in FDC, but I am unsure as what these would grade as.

I apologise for the horrible photos, but I hope you can get something out of them.
Any help is appreciated.

Thanks a tonne.

Coinanthebarbarian.

Bedrock of the Community
Australia
19010 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  04:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The '59 is certainly a proof, because there is no 'egg' between the emu's legs.
I also have a '59 (without 'egg'), that appears to be about the same grade as that on screen.

Almost all late date pre decimal proofs were kept protected by their owners, and so the most common grade for a proof Florin would be around PF66.

Need much sharper pictures to give an honest accurate grade for these two, but from what I see here, I would be happy with
PF-66 for both of them.

IMHO, PF-66 would equate to nFDC.

You would need to examine them, hand held, under ideal point source lighting with a 10X loupe, and not find even the slightest sign of a hairline or ding to be able to give a true grade of FDC (=PF-70).
That can't be done by us with these on screen pictures - only you are in a position to examine for true FDC.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 'egg' always appears on all issued into circulation 59 Florins.
After the production of these was completed, a flaw on the master die was discovered, that is expressed in the form of the 'egg'.
A proof die was hubbed off the master die, and the 'egg' flaw was corrected. This correction can be seen if you closely examine the 'egg' area, where the flaw was tooled out, before the die was hardened.
Valued Member
Australia
385 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  06:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echidna to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pics are not good enough to grade properly.
However I'd guess aFDC.
Pricing numbers provided are what you would pay retail at a big dealer.

Also any obverses hairlines means they will not grade at PCGS.

A man who tells lies merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it.
Pillar of the Community
New Zealand
2968 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  06:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Princetane to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Photos not sharp enough.

The 1958 has a long scratch on the nape of the Queens head, that would be grounds enough to make it PF 64 or even lower.

Still, a fantastic pair of coins anyway. They make my basic Choice UNC and Au (1959) coins look worn!
Loving Halfcrowns. British and Commonwealth coins 1750 - 1950 and anything Kiwi.
If it's round, shiny and silvery I will love it.
New Member
Australia
15 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  07:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinanthebarb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Sel. Thanks for the info and the grade estimation. I really appreciate it.
I don't think they would be anywhere close to a PR69 or PR70. There is a fair bit wrong with the coins that would deduct some points.

I have found it hard to get a good photo that shows every scratch & detail. How do you take photos of coins?
New Member
Australia
15 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  07:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinanthebarb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, echidna. I apologise for the horrible pics. Do you think that they would get a details grade because of big hairlines if I were to get them graded instead of a full grade?

Thanks again.

Coinanthebarbarian
New Member
Australia
15 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  07:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinanthebarb to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, princetane. It isn't worth getting them graded if they would go for a details, or a low MS grade. Numistip values a 64 at $160, but if you think that there is a chance that they might go for a lower grade, they are probably only worth $70 - $100.

Thanks again.

Coinanthebarbarian.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
19010 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2021  08:37 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am reasonably happy with the prices that Max Stern has valued them for is OK.

There is an alleged? '59 proof florin on eBay at $200, but
I think that it is a standard '59, that has been tooled.
Edited by sel_69l
07/18/2021 08:39 am
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United States
104028 Posts
Pillar of the Community
Australia
774 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2021  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Did the OP end up submitting the coins for grading?
The valuations are too high. $675 for a '59 proof is well above what PR66 sell for (current Bluesheet is $420) and more likely the coin is PR65 (Bluesheet is $340 which is generous and which probably only worth maybe $150 as several have sold around that price in the past 2 years). There is an example in PR65 on ebay with a BIN of $199.99 AUD and no buyer and another in PR66 at $1199.95 AUD and again no buyer. Also a NGC 1959 PR66 with a BIN of US369 (about $495 AUD)
There are no proof florins (any year) graded higher than PR67 and to get that grade a florin would need to be exceptional.
Also the OP mentioned they wouldn't be worth grading if they go for Details or low MS grade; but I don't think that PR coins would be intentionally given a MS prefix as some sort of downgrade. Not that an MS grade is a bad thing compared to a PR grade as at MS65 they can be worth more than PR65 and at MS/PR66 I'd much rather keep my MS66 1959 florin than a 1959 PR66 or PR67 florin.
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
19010 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2021  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am reasonably certain that an MS-66 (or above) standard '59 Florin
would be much scarcer than a PR-66 (or above) proof '59 Florin.

And my opinion is not biased. I already have a proof '59 Florin, that I would grade at PR-66.
I am reasonably certain that I have never seen a '59 standard Florin in MS-66 or better.
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At the grade levels we are considering, it would be impossible to offer a grading opinion of the OP's coins, based on their on screen pictures.
They appear to be at least MS-64, but beyond that, a TPGrader would need to closely examine both of them hand held, with the aid of a 10x loupe.

Edited by sel_69l
09/04/2021 08:47 am
Pillar of the Community
Australia
774 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2021  09:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm lucky, I do have a 1959 MS66 florin, Timbertop also has one and those 2 account for all the MS66 examples. I doubt that a MS67 will ever turn up and 1960 is the only year with circulation florins to make that exalted grade In 1959 Proofs however there are over 40 in PR66 and 5 in PR67. I don't have a proof 1959 florin but I do have a PR66 1963 and based on that coin I know that to make PR66 it needs to be a superior coin. The '58 won't cut it as there is a couple of scratches on the obverse (so PR63-64?) and the '59 could be anywhere from PR64 to 66 but I'm leaning towards 64 most likely with a good chance at 65 as although there are no visible scratches it has some issues. What is the discolouration in the O of florin? Is that a minor rim bump at 1 o'clock on the reverse and why does the coin appear dull? Also what is the dark stuff on the top edge of the shield as well as below the lion?
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
19010 Posts
 Posted 09/05/2021  02:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am not in the least surprised that there are only two graded MS-66 '59 standard issue Florins, and none above MS-66.
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