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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

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20566 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2021  10:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@david, thx for posting this, but we are actually taking a more leisurely path backwards in time with this round and each decade is generally going to be getting a full week rather than a day. Therefore, we are still in the decade of the 1590s right now. I look forward to seeing your Sixpence next week though!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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Russian Federation
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 Posted 07/26/2021  6:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Mint Pskov. Mintmark PSRZ (off flan).
In fact the "RZ" part (looks like P3) is the date: (7)107 AM = 1598/9 AD.
Interesting type! I don't have that one and should probably try to get it.

Here's my PSRZ (last letter not very legible), but with corrected name of Boris (KG 193)...



Sorry for the quality, those photos were taken with a webcam of all things!
Somehow since 2014 I never bothered to take better pics of this coin (that I could recall, at least).
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United Kingdom
73 Posts
 Posted 07/26/2021  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Here's my PSRZ

Yes you have the exact part I'm missing from the same obverse die!

Quote:
In fact the "RZ" part (looks like P3) is the date: (7)107 AM = 1598/9 AD.

Well that is very interesting. I never realised! It seems many of these wire kopeks I've assumed are undated are dated after all.

For anyone else bemused by this, I found this page to show which Cyrillic letters represent which numbers:
https://russianicons.wordpress.com/...date-system/

This shows R = 100 and Z = 7, so RZ is 107.

It also gives the formula for working out the date, since year zero is 5508 years earlier in Old Russian (at least it was after 1492). They were going for the date of Creation, rather than the birth of Christ:

Cyrillic letter - 5508 = Julian date.

So if RZ is 107, an abbreviation of 7107, we have:

7107 - 5508 = 1599 in the Julian Calendar.

Of course, we then have to translate that into the Gregorian Calendar. At that time, New Year in Russia was on 1 September. (It was on 1 September from 1492 to 1700, when moderniser Peter the Great changed it to 1 January. But since Russia kept the Julian Calendar until 1918, their 'old' New Year got out of sync again and is now on January 14).

So 1599 on the coin in the modern calendar would be September 1598 to August 1599. I think.
Edited by JohnConduitt
07/26/2021 8:51 pm
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 Posted 07/29/2021  07:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok we are slowing down a bit with coins from the 1590s, so I'll give it another day or two and then we can drop back to the 1580s. How about Saturday? Or is it best to just wait until Sunday at that point?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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 Posted 07/29/2021  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was thinking the same thing.
You could declare "last call" for 1590s since we haven't had a new coin in something like 60 hours. And move ahead tomorrow or Saturday. That gives the whole weekend for everyone to dig out their 1580s coins.

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 Posted 07/29/2021  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok super. This is "last call" for posting your 1590s coins. Starting on Saturday we will drop back to the 1580s.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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 Posted 07/31/2021  05:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's Saturday here already so I get a head start

For the 1580s I have an Elizabeth I halfpenny from her 6th coinage (1582-1600), the first of Elizabeth's to include halfpennies. This was the smallest denomination she issued despite demand for smaller change, since at 0.24g it was already impractical.

The date is more precise because the mintmark was only used from 1582-4.

It features the portcullis, which appeared on pennies of Elizabeth II 400 years later.

Elizabeth I Halfpenny, 1582-4

Tower. Silver, 9mm, 0.24g. Portcullis Gate with chains, mintmark A. Long cross fourchee, three pellets in each field (S 2581).
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 Posted 07/31/2021  06:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very neat coin! (and VERY tiny!)

Duchy of Lorraine, 1/4 teston, undated, Charles III (1545-1608)
Obv: Elderly bust, right; armored and bareheaded. CAROL D G CAL LOTH B GEL DVX (Charles, by the grace of God, Duke of Calabria, Lorraine, Bar and Gelderland)
Rev: Crowned arms of Lorraine (and all those other places). Crowned Lorraine cross on each side of shield. MONETA NOVA NANCEII CVSA (New coinage struck in Nancy), Initial G for mintmaster Nicolas Gennetaire.
Boudeau 1534.
Though Charles' reign spanned seven decades (one more than Elizabeth), this elderly bust followed several younger versions some of which appeared on coins dated up to 1583. For this 1/4 teston, Numista gives a date range 1582-1608, CGB dates this coin "from 1582." INumis dates it "circa 1584." A dated version from 1587 with the same bust exists. This uncertainty means it would not have been able to move us back.


Edited by tdziemia
07/31/2021 08:28 am
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 Posted 07/31/2021  12:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some great coins posted for this decade so far!

I'm adding this Half Öre from Sweden dated 1580 AD. The inscriptions are "JOHANNS 3 DG SVEG REX IR" and "MONETA NOVA REG SVE 80". The attribution is Ahl-89. I've had it for nearly a dozen years, but this was one of the last coins that I bought from this decade.


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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 Posted 07/31/2021  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice all!
@JohnConduitt...I've never seen this type before, sweet little coin....Now if you're going to write an 'A' that's the way to do it..Pretty!

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 Posted 08/01/2021  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A fantastically neat English coin, some (as always) nice Lorraine silver, and even a Swedish ½ öre! What a great start for the 1580s!

Navarre/Béarn 1580, 1 franc, Henry II/III, Pau mint. 13.6 g, 35.5 mm. Duplessy (Féodales) 1319, Roberts 6993.



Obv: Henry III of Navarre, also Lord Henry II of Béarn (and future king Henry IV of France), here in his twenties. The cow below the bust is the symbol for Béarn.
Inscription: HENRICVS II Dei Gratia REX NAVARRaE Dominus Bearnie (Henry II by Grace of God King of Navarre, Lord of Béarn).

Rev: Flowered cross with crowned H's.
Inscription: GRATIA DEI SVM ID QVOD SVM (By the Grace of God, I am what I am). This is the motto of Béarn.

The Navarrese province of Béarn minted its own coins, with the same design as the coins of Navarre (and of France, with which Navarre's monetary system was harmonized), but with different coat of arms and modified inscriptions. On the coins from Béarn, Henry's lordship is signified by the letters DB - Dominus Bearnie - after his regal title (REX NAVARRAE D B).
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 Posted 08/01/2021  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lovely coin. Hard to keep track of what was and wasn't part of "France" back then.

I'll make it 5 different issuing entities with this giulio from the Grand Duchy of Tuscany dated 1585.
Obv: Crowned Medici arms. FRAN M MAGN DVX ETRURIAE II (Francesco Medici, second Grand Duke of Etruria (Tuscany).
Rev: Standing figures of St. John the Baptist (left) and St. Francis of Assissi. DIVIS in exergue. IOH B PROT FRANCISC. MIR 192.


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 Posted 08/01/2021  11:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry Spence, I saw it was after midnight and rushed ahead.








Silver sixpence dated 1587 Elizabeth I, these tend to have very worn portraits.
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 Posted 08/01/2021  11:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Don't stress at all--we've shifted things up a bit for this newest version. I'm really glad to see that you've got some coins to post!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz

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Learn More...
Sweden
790 Posts
 Posted 08/02/2021  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'll make it 5 different issuing entities

Well, let's make that six then . Here is a genuinely French coin.

France 1584, 1 franc, Henry III, Toulouse (M). 13.9 g, 34.7 mm. Duplessy 1130A, Sombart 4720, Roberts 3612.



Obv: Henry III, in his best ruff collar.
Inscription: HENRICVS III Dei Gratia FRANCiae ET POLoniae REX (Henry III by Grace of God King of France and Poland).

Rev: Floreated cross with fleurs-de-lys, center H for Henry.
Inscription: SIT NOMEN DOMINI BENEDICTVM (Blessed be the name of the Lord).
Mint marks: C (after BENEDICTVM) stands for the mint master, Pierre Catellan. The shell at 12 o'clock is the mark of the engraver, Jean Martin.

Mintage: 186,300 (according to Sombart).

Henry III of France was brother-in-law and distant cousin of Henry III of Navarre. He kept the title of King of Poland, although he had effectively lost the Polish throne in 1575.

It was Henry who began minting franc coins in 1578. This the largest silver coin was equal to 1 livre tournois. Its size and the uneven shape resulting from it being hammered* invited to clipping and forging, and it was rarely minted after 1586.

* The Navarrese franc from 1580 I showed in my previous post is milled; the mint in Pau was an exception with its milled coinage at this time.
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