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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

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 Posted 01/14/2022  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So many neat coins!

My own 1330s entry is another Golden Horde pul...



Golden Horde, time of Muhammad Uzbek Khan
Bulghar mint?, [73]4 AH
Obverse: tamgha of Batu in pentagram, date between rays
Reverse: Arabic inscription ("pul of Bulghar"?) in eight-lobed shape
Numista 224669, Zeno cat. 10665

Note that the digits are probably in reverse order compared to the Numista entry (the top left of the 4 is visible at 7h); cf. Zeno 18681 for the digit placement, though the tamgha is pointing in a slightly different direction, so it's not a die match.


Current listing for the 1330s:

1339 - tdziemia (?)
1338 - tdziemia, EddieDiz
1337 - tdziemia; Grinya (737 AH)
1336-35 - none yet (would be 736 and 735 AH)
1334 - january1may (734 AH)
1333 - none yet (would be 733 AH)
1332 - Grinya (732 AH)
1331 - Grinya (731 AH)
1330 - EddieDiz (?)

As (I believe) I've mentioned several times before, in this decade the gap between AH dates and their AD conversions is consistently exactly 600 years - though as the AH years (also consistently for this decade) start in the second half of the previous AD year, this might not necessarily be what the listings would say!

@EddieDiz, what's your source for attributing the H472/U373 denar to 1330? The Numista entry says 1308-22. I have a coin that might be this type or a later type, and if 1330 is correct I could post it for this week.

@tdziemia, when you say "emission of 1339" for your Brabant coin, are you trying to imply that it is datable to this year?
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 Posted 01/14/2022  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EddieDiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@january1may,I must have looked at the Huszar catalogue too fast. It has 1330 but with a question mark. I had to enlarge it to see the question mark. I think I bought this coin several years ago because I had to go to my old computer to find the pictures.
Edited by EddieDiz
01/14/2022 4:34 pm
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 Posted 01/14/2022  4:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
@january1may,I must have looked at the Huszar catalogue too fast. It has 1330 but with a question mark. I had to enlarge it to see the question mark. I think I bought this coin several years ago because I had to go to my old computer to find the pictures.
OK, thanks! Still wonder where does Numista's attribution to 1308-22 come from.

I'll probably post it under 1300s then, because I don't think I have anything else for that decade otherwise.
AFAIK after 1320s I don't have any datable entries until... probably the 1170s? But I hadn't posted some of my Islamic coins for ID yet and a few of them looked like they could have been 13th century.
Edited by january1may
01/14/2022 4:57 pm
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 Posted 01/15/2022  09:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
...when you say "emission of 1339" for your Brabant coin, are you trying to imply that it is datable to this year?


A qualified yes.
Witte (1894) did not have documentary evidence to date the coins from this reign.
By the time Ghyssens (1983?) published his monograph, a lot of the types were assigned narrow dates based on newer research, including hoards, of which he cites three for this type.
For dating this one, he has en decembre 1339 ("in Dec. 1339") and not a partir de december 1339 ("starting from Dec. 1339")

Auction houses like Elsen, iNumis and Eeckhoudt attribute the coin to 1339, though other places give it a broader range.




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 Posted 01/15/2022  10:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EddieDiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@january1may....I remember back when I bought the coin I was frustrated when looking from reference to reference because it seemed to conflict each other and eventually just put the coin in the album. That is interesting that Numista has a date range of 1308-22 and Huszar has a 1330 with a question mark. I just didn't notice the question mark.


EDIT.... I tried google-ing Huszar 472,Unger 373 and one of the search results shows 3 of these coins listed on the Darabanth Aukcioshaz auction web site listed as 1330K. I am going to have to do more digging.
Edited by EddieDiz
01/15/2022 11:30 am
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 Posted 01/15/2022  10:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Grinya to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dang of Muhammad Uzbeg Khan (Saray al-Jadida mint - Type 5) 739-741 (1339-1341)
Date is off, but I believe it is 739AH



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 Posted 01/15/2022  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Still wonder where does Numista's attribution to 1308-22 come from.


Maybe it's a mistake.
I don't have a catalog, but WCN moves a fair number of Hungary coins, and they have Huszar 472 as 1330-1336: https://wcn.pl/archive/186375
Rauch has it as "circa 1330" and "1330?" like @EddieDiz
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7611157
Edited by tdziemia
01/15/2022 12:21 pm
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 Posted 01/15/2022  12:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Maybe it's a mistake.
I don't have a catalog, but WCN moves a fair number of Hungary coins, and they have Huszar 472 as 1330-1336: https://wcn.pl/archive/186375
Rauch has it as "circa 1330" and "1330?" like @EddieDiz
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=7611157

Even Unger has it as 1330 (without a question mark), and that's the first reference on Numista. Page 118 https://dokumen.tips/documents/dr-u...zo-ipdf.html
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 Posted 01/15/2022  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add EddieDiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have had my current computer for about 4 years and I have a downloaded copy of Huszar on it. On my old computer I have a copy of Unger on it. That must be where I saw it. Some day I will need to trnsfer the old pictures and the copy of Unger from the old computer to the new one. I spent the last hour looking for the copy of Unger and found it.
Edited by EddieDiz
01/15/2022 1:11 pm
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 Posted 01/15/2022  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Maybe it's a mistake.
...in retrospect that does sound likely, considering that they also cite the legend as meaningless MAGGIS KARVLI [sic], as opposed to (probably) M REGIS KARVLI "[coin?] of King Charles".

My example, unfortunately, is so badly struck, and/or so badly worn, that there might be no way to tell if it belongs to this type of Charles or to a very similar issue (Unger 419, Huszar 529) of his son Louis (a more legible example of which I've posted before for the 1340s); any distinguishing lettering is off flan and/or illegible.
I tentatively attribute it to Charles from the details on the crown (three small openings), but it could probably easily be either.

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 Posted 01/15/2022  1:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So ... who'd like to submit the correction?

Here is my last dateable coin from this decade, a billon quattrino from the Republic of Florence, datable to 1334 by the sigla of mintmaster Falcone di Ghero. MIR 85/6. Recent pickup currently in transit, still the auction house photo.



Obv: Lily of Florence. FLORENTIA
Rev: St John the Baptist holding book in right hand and long cross in his left. +S.JOHANNES.B
Edited by tdziemia
01/15/2022 1:37 pm
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 Posted 01/15/2022  5:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a Hungarian Denar datable to 1333 AD. The rev legend is +KAROLVS REX HVNGARIE. I have it attributed as Huszar 481 and Frynas H.24.32.


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 01/16/2022  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Another Hungarian Denar for me to post today. I've actually got two of the same type, but this one is a little nicer despite the flan crack and dark regions. The obv inscription is REGIS KAROLI and the rev inscription is M REGIS HVNGARIE. I have attributed it as Frynas H.24.46 and Hiuszar 495.


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 01/17/2022  10:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a billon mite from the County of Flanders, minted at Aalst between 1332-1334. Gaillard #197, or here in Numista https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces310101.html
Count Louis I chose his allies unwisely, opting to side with the French in the 100 Years' War, costing him first his popularity with his subjects, and then his life at the battle of Crecy in 1346.




Obv: L monogram. MONETA ALOSTS
Rev: Long cross. LVD COM FLADRI
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 Posted 01/17/2022  12:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice one @tdz.

I've got a couple left to post, but both are with date ranges wider than a decade. First up is this uniface Pfennig from the Swiss Bishopric of Basel. It can be dated to between 1335 and 1465 AD and is attributed as HMZ I-255.


"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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