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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

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 Posted 08/29/2021  4:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't know about the S, but I can find that nice "handlebar H" on coins of Lorraine starting from at least as early 1523, and as late as 1545.
You will find them on the obverse of your Antoine Teston.
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 Posted 08/29/2021  5:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You don't happen to know the reference for that change in letterform do you?

Sure, it's an article in Bulletin de la Société Française de Numismatique:

A. Clairand: Essai de classement typologique et chronologique des liards à l'H de Navarre au nom d'Henri Ier d'Albret (1516-1555), Bulletin de la Société Française de Numismatique, 47e année (1992), No 3, pp. 271-74.

It is available online here: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/b...e.r=clairand

Quote:
that nice "handlebar H" on coins of Lorraine starting from at least as early 1523 ... You will find them on the obverse of your Antoine Teston

Indeed The 'H' in the legend is an ordinary one, though.
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 Posted 08/29/2021  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you so much @era.

I'm always on the hunt for articles about the changing numismatic letterforms during the late dark and early medieval times.

I agree that the crowned H is pretty special too!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/01/2021  9:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Last call for the 1540s! Let's drop back to the 1530s starting tomorrow morning.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/02/2021  08:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will start the 1530s with this 1537 Annengroschen from the City of Brunswick, Germany, Saurma 3802.



Obv: Lion shield, MONETA NOVA BRUNSWICC
Rev: Figure of St. Anne holding Mary and Jesus, ANNE MATER VIRGI MARI
Edited by tdziemia
09/02/2021 09:05 am
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 Posted 09/02/2021  09:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coin. How far back do they date them?

The Ivan the Terrible dengas struck before he made himself tsar come now, but the minting period is a little too long to qualify.

Ivan IV Denga, 1535-1547

Tver. Silver, 0.34g. 'Grand Prince Ivan'. Horseman with sabre (KG 67).
Edited by JohnConduitt
09/02/2021 09:44 am
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 Posted 09/02/2021  1:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that type ran 1533-1540.
The better known Mariengroschen ran 1534-1554 in Brunswick, but started earlier in some other German city-states (at least Goslar and Hildesheim).
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 Posted 09/03/2021  10:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arkie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hungarian denar




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 Posted 09/06/2021  9:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Could the 1520s be around the corner?
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 Posted 09/06/2021  9:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep that is a good idea @tdz. Let's plan to drop back a decade starting tomorrow morning.

In the meanwhile, here is a Groschen from the Thorn mint in Prussia dated 1535 AD. It was under Polish rule at the time, so it is listed in Kopicki (as #3091).



"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/07/2021  05:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll kick off the 1520s with this tiny, anonymous, corroded bagattino (copper, 15 mm, 1 g) of the Duchy of Reggio Emilia attributed to Duke Alfonso I with a date range 1523-1534, so it will not move us back (but I know that won't be a problem). MIR 1295.
An unusual coin for me, because years after I bought it, I learned it had been mis-attributed by the seller.
Obv: Shield of Reggio Emilia in the shape of a horse's head. R E G I V M
Rev: Half length facing bust of St. Prospero. S P R O S P (variant with first P looking like D)

Edited by tdziemia
09/07/2021 05:35 am
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 Posted 09/07/2021  10:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great, then I'm back in the game for at least a couple of decades!

Nice bagattino, @tdziemia, despite the worn condition. There is something special about those old, tiny coppers - coins that passed through so many hands, fulfilling the daily needs of ordinary people.*

I have shown this coin before, but it is worth showing again. It has become one of my favorites, and having its origin in the Italian testone, it makes a nice transition from the bagattino:

Lorraine 1523, teston, Anthony of Lorraine, Nancy mint. Silver, 9.57 g, 30.5 mm. Roberts 9552.




Obv: Anthony, wearing the ducal crown.
Inscription: ANTHONius Dei Gratia LOTHOrum ET BArum DVX
(Anthony by Grace of God Duke of the Lorrainians and Bars; or Peoples of Lorraine and Bar, sounds better perhaps). This coin demonstrates the use of '4' as a shorthand for the suffix -rum.

Rev: Anthony's coat of arms, with the arms of Árpád, Anjou-Naples, Jerusalem, Aragon, Valois-Anjou, Bar, and Lorraine (in the center).
Inscription: MONETA NANCEII CVSA (Coin minted in Nancy).

* Italian states is not my area of collection, but from what I understand, a bagattino had the same value as a denaro (1/240 lira). My somewhat cursory research tells me that it must have been just small change at the time. To buy a cup of wine (or an egg, depending on your preferences ) cost about 6 denari. The daily wage for an unskilled worker was around ½ lira (120 denari), a qualified worker (like a mason) could make a full lira.
The Lorraine teston could buy you more, of course. I am not sure how it related to the lira - maybe a value of 1½-2 lire?


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 Posted 09/07/2021  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is an amazing coin, @erafjel. I haven't seen many with portraits like that.

I think this is my last for a decade or two. I'm not totally sure about the dates, but they start in the 1520s at least.

Henry VIII Groat, 1526-1532

Tower. Silver, 2.77g. Second coinage (1526-1544). Laker Bust D, mintmark arrow, HENRIC VIII D G R AGLIE Z FRANC (Henry VIII by the Grace of God King of England and France). POSVI DEU ADIVTORE MEU (I have made God my helper) (S 2337E).
Edited by JohnConduitt
09/07/2021 3:27 pm
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 Posted 09/08/2021  06:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The Lorraine teston could buy you more, of course. I am not sure how it related to the lira - maybe a value of 1½-2 lire?


That sounds right. I am seeing Venetian lire (called a mocenigo at the time) of about 6.4 g. so the teston would be about 1 1/2.
Thanks for the valuation of the bagattino! I think the central Italian currency where that baggatino was produced was the scudo, which I think would have been some multiples of a lira?
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 Posted 09/11/2021  07:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Taking advantage of other folks posting coins that will move us back, here is a coin that was minted between 1521 and 1559 AD that I haven't posted to CCF previously. It is a Vintena from Portugal that is attributed as Gomes #11-01 and de Aragao #602. Both the obv and rev inscriptions are IOANES 3 R P ET A D G.








How about if we drop back to the decade of the 1510s starting tomorrow morning?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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