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Walking Back In Time From 1600 To Antiquity By Decades (V3.0)

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Russian Federation
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 Posted 09/11/2021  08:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


My first, and for a long time only, coin from the 1520s.

Archbishopric of Salzburg, Matthäus Lang von Wellenburg, pfennig, 1521. Numista 73133.

(I have another 1520s coin, which I would hopefully be able to post later today.)
Edited by january1may
09/11/2021 08:47 am
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21437 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2021  09:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have another 1520s coin, which I would hopefully be able to post later today


Ok yes that would be awesome. I don't mind holding this decade for another day or two if you need it. This thread is meant to be a little less frenetic and a little more inclusive than the previous ones so please take the time you need.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/11/2021  1:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree! The more the merrier.


Quote:
Taking advantage of other folks posting coins that will move us back, here is a coin ... that I haven't posted to CCF previously


Same with me for that little Italian bagattino.
Nice one! We don;t see much from Portugal.
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Spain
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 Posted 09/11/2021  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well I must say this is, and will be a very interesting thread!.....I did have a coin for the 1530's but missed it, sorry!
...Paul
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 Posted 09/11/2021  8:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We will have to see that one in our V4.0 @paul!

It isn't from Portugal, but I do have another previously-unposted coin from the decade of the 1520s. Here is a Groschen from the German Imperial City of Metz that was minted between 1525 and 1530 AD. The obv inscription is S STEPE PROTLOM and the rev inscriptions are BNDICTV SIT NOM C DNI NRI THV XPI and GRO SSV S*M ETE. It can be found in the Krause book on 16th Century German coins as MB 25.



"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
Russian Federation
3676 Posts
 Posted 09/11/2021  10:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting coin! Looks a lot like the 15th century dated coins you kept showing off in the date thread (and will hopefully continue showing off in this one.

My other 1520s entry is honestly a little boring by comparison...



I have two coins for the 1510s, both dated. I'll have to check if I have anything for 1500s and/or 1490s.
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 Posted 09/12/2021  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice one @j1m! Let's drop back a decade now to the 1510s.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 09/13/2021  06:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have that same type of Metz groschen with St. Stephen, but have not been able to attribute the date range as narrowly (I think it came from a CNG auction). When I look at other examples of this coin sold at auction, I often see just "undated 15th century," or "ab/nach 1406" or occasionally "circa 1450." I am guessing the narrower attribution comes from the obv punctuation? Yours has stars, mine, and many of the others I see, has rosettes, and I see some examples with double annelets. I'm curious if the Krause reference shows any variants with other date ranges?
Also, I think the obverse lettering is ...PROThO * M, rather than ...PROTRO * M. St STephen was known as the "protomartyr" or first martyr, since he is the first follower of Jesus known to have been put to death (even before any of the other apostles), so this term is sometimes seen in the legend.

I will start the 1510s with a coin I have also not posted before, and also with a saint.

Austria, 1517 batzen:



Obv: Saint Leopold, holding a model of a church, (likely the chapel of Klosterneuburg Abbey where he is buried) S.LEOPOLD- VS.1517.
Rev: Three shields, *MONETA.NOVA.CARINTHIE*
Leopold III was the Margrave of Austria from 1095-1136, and canonized as a saint by the church in 1485.
Edited by tdziemia
09/13/2021 06:48 am
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 Posted 09/15/2021  07:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I have that same type of Metz groschen with St. Stephen, but have not been able to attribute the date range as narrowly (I think it came from a CNG auction). When I look at other examples of this coin sold at auction, I often see just "undated 15th century," or "ab/nach 1406" or occasionally "circa 1450."


Yes fair enough @tdz. According to my Krause, it dates to "ca. 1525 to 1530". When I labelled my 2x2, I inadvertently omitted the circa part, but I've fixed it now. Krause references Schulten #2187 but unfortunately I don't have this reference, so I can't check to see if there is a discrepancy.

For the decade of the 1510s, I'm posting another coin which wouldn't move the thread back on its own. Here is a Denier from the Swiss Canton of Lausaunne that was minted in the date range of 1517 to 1536 AD. It is attributed as HMZ I-5366. Interestingly, the rev inscription is MONETA CI AAE, where the second letter A is upside down.






Let's give folks another day or two before we drop back a decade.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Sweden
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 Posted 09/15/2021  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erafjel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice coins from everyone . That's a fine and detailed depiction of St Leopold, @tdziemia. He looks rather warrior-like for a saint.

Francis I of France didn't qualify to become a saint, but he was a patron of the arts. He engaged Leonardo da Vinci to work for him, and he acquired the Mona Lisa painting shortly after it was made. He promoted development of the French language, to the extent that one of his epiteths was 'Father and Restorer of Letters.' Another epiteth was 'Francis of the Large Nose,' something which is evident on the testons with his portrait.

But I don't have a teston today, only Francis's initial 'F' shows up on this one.

France 1515-19, écu d'or, Francis I, Lyons mint. Gold, 3.41 g, 26 mm. Duplessy 771A, Lafaurie 636.



Obv: Royal coat of arms, sun above.
Inscription: FRANCISCVS DEI GRACIA FRANCORVM REX (Francis by Grace of God King of the Franks).

Rev: Cross with fleurs-de-lys, crowned F's.
Inscription: XPS VINCIT XPS REGNAT XPS IMPERAT (Christ conquers, Christ reigns, Christ commands). XPS is Chi-Rho-S, a mix of Greek and Latin letters for the Greek Christos. This spelling replaced the original fully Greek form XPC (Chi-Rho-[lunate] Sigma) in the mid 1400s and was in turn replaced by the completely latinised CHRS in the mid 1500s.

The Lyons mint is indicated by "secret points" under the 12th letters on the obverse and reverse ('E' and 'S' respectively). The trefoil at the end of the inscription on both sides is also a mint mark for Lyons. Other symbols between the words are the marks of now forgotten mint masters.

A gold écu was of course a rather substantial sum. Its value varied a bit, but in 1519 it was 2 livres - about a week's pay for a qualified craftsman (maybe a month's pay for an agricultural worker). You could buy a few sheep or about 150 liters of wine for it.
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Netherlands
92 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2021  5:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vstefanyuk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is the coin of period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Glinskaya, mother of Ivan the Terrible.

No certain date, should be around 1520s (sorry if a little off the thread :)).

Actually, it is first issue of coins of this type.

This coin gave the name of coin which still is used in Russia/Ukraine/Belarus:

The word kopek, kopeck, copeck, or kopeyka (in Russian: #1082;#1086;#1087;#1077;#1081;#1082;#1072;, kopeyka) is a diminutive form of the Russian kop'yo (#1082;#1086;#1087;#1100;#1105;) — a spear[citation needed]. The first kopek coins, minted at Novgorod and Pskov from about 1534 onwards, show a horseman with a spear. From the 1540s onwards the horseman bears a crown, and doubtless the intention was to represent Ivan the Terrible, who was Grand Prince of all Russia until 1547, and Tsar thereafter. Subsequent mintings of the coin, starting in the 18th century, bear instead Saint George striking down a serpent with spear, hence kopek from kop'yo (#1082;#1086;#1087;#1100;#1105;).


Valued Member
Netherlands
92 Posts
 Posted 09/15/2021  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vstefanyuk to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coin-name origin gives a little bit later dates, but actual date is the time of Elena Glinskaya.
Edited by vstefanyuk
09/15/2021 5:32 pm
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 Posted 09/15/2021  5:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice variety of coins today!
@spence, I wasn't questioning the date range for yours, but wondering if there is a reference that attributes subtypes of the St Stephen coin to different parts of the broader date range I tend to see.
@erafjel, interesting observation on Leopold. The other royal saint (from nearby) who is more often portrayed with a weapon is Ladislas of Hungary, who holds a halberd on Hungary coins, and also in lots of statues, artwork, etc.
Edited by tdziemia
09/15/2021 5:37 pm
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Russian Federation
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 Posted 09/15/2021  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@vstefanyuk - awesome coin! AFAIK the usual date for those is ca. 1535-38 or thereabouts; 1520s seems far too early.
I have an example of this type, but it's not as nice, and IIRC double struck. In any case it hadn't been photographed.


Fun fact about this specific type: this legend used to be misinterpreted!

The first two lines, roughly but fairly clearly, translate to "Grand Prince"; what follows looks like HΓΔPb, except with the Δ looking a lot more rounder (almost O-like), followed by (again) fairly clear words translating to "of all Russia".
As such, at some point, those five letters were read as HΓOPb, which is to say, "Igor". Grand Prince Igor of all Russia. Perfectly reasonable legend, except that Igor reigned about six centuries too early.

It is now known that the H is actually the ending of the word for "Grand", and the next four letters, ΓΔPb, are short for "gosudar" - i.e. "sovereign". Grand Prince and Sovereign of all Russia. Ivan, presumably. (At the time he would have been somewhere between six and ten years old.)
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 Posted 09/18/2021  07:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My last coin to post for the 1510s is this Grosetto from the Croatian City of Ragusa that dates to between 1514 and 1533 AD. The obv legend is IC XP while the rev legend is RAGVSII S BLASIVS R. I have it tentatively attributed as CNI 63 and Reng 1673.




Ok let's drop back to the decade of the 1500s starting tomorrow morning. Last call for the 1510s!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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