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1976 D Lincoln Cent. Information Needed.

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 13 / Views: 384Next Topic  
Valued Member
United States
83 Posts
 Posted 09/18/2021  10:22 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add DACWG183 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Good afternoon. This coin is circulated, pretty heavily. I noticed a few things I have highlighted in the pictures that do not line up with any variety u can find. For DDO I have read extra thickness and all that but no mention of anything dealing with the date. Wexler mentions a Class II spread on some lettering. I am curious if this is doubling on this date? It isn't flat and shelf like so I am curious if it's ejection or any other type I may not know of yet. I appreciate all the help. Thanks and God bless.



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United States
41218 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2021  04:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
. Your coin looks like MD to me, not a DDO.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
Pillar of the Community
United States
5562 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2021  07:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ijn1944 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree, given the photos posted it appears to be a matter of Machine Doubling. Good example. Probably too late, but would have been useful to see full and sharp photos of the obverse and reverse.
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United States
83 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2021  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DACWG183 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you guys. I'm still training my eyes to see the difference. Most Machine Doubling jumps out at me and I can tell immediately because the flat, shelf like areas are closer to the coins planchet. This is raised and sorta rounded it seemed so I was leaning to either machine or ejection doubling.
I will post some obverse and reverse when we are finished with Sunday dinner.
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United States
279 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2021  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TwistedTrader to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi DACWG183 Machine Doubling doesn't always have a shelf. The 7 in your photo is a good example. The line up the middle of it shows material is taken away from the surface. The doubled die may also have a line but it wouldn't be like falling off a cliff like this one. It would have the left side of the 7.
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United States
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 Posted 09/19/2021  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Oldfordman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MD
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United States
83 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2021  2:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DACWG183 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@TwistedTrader. Thank you very much. Being able to look in real life and apply what you guys teach me will help me a lot. I see what your saying. It just tripped me up. So for now on I will keep in mind if it takes away from the origional it is machine. Thanks again.
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53910 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2021  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Note the tops of the motto devices on the WDDO-001:
http://doubleddie.com/823965.html
Also the V.V listings:
http://www.varietyvista.com/01b%20L...6DDDO001.htm
Looks like the same die.
Note the center of the 'R' on Trust?
Also note the location of the mintmark to see if they match?
ADDED:
Looking again at the images on the motto and the date, I see Machine Doubling on the left side of the devices. Note how it affects the devices? It is reducing the size of the devices. So this is probably just a case of Machine Doubling. Even note the mintmark? It shows the same thing.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
09/20/2021 11:20 am
Valued Member
United States
83 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2021  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DACWG183 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop. I checked the die markers mentioned in Wexler. This coin has been heavily circulated. I'm not sure if I am correct but it seems the (dots) on heavily circulated coins turn black or dark. Maybe because of the dirt and grime getting caught on them? Anyway. All the markers are there. The B in liberty looks identical. The R in trust is slightly more open on mine. The mint mark is very close if not the same. Do you think they used the same working die but changed the last digit? Causing the 4 to look that way? I am going to look through my coins to see if I have a 74 in better shape. See if the same identifiers are there. Thanks for thinking out of the box and bringing this up. I love the hunt!
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53910 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2021  10:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Old dies are retired. It is the master die that was altered on pre 1983 cents. Then the MD creates a working hub, that creates the working dies. I'll try tomorrow to check mintmark locations. If not an exact match, then it's not from the same die. With a doubled die, a devices need to match, or it's not from that attributed die. Markers are used to confirm die States/stages. Markers can come and go, or happen to coins after the die event happened. With the machine/dies doing the same thing over and over, similar die events can happen, but are not an exact match. Again this has to match/weaken depending on dies life events. So the matches start with hub doubling/ mintmark locations first. Then markers. Close doesn't make it a match.
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Valued Member
United States
83 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2021  08:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DACWG183 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you coop for the information. Awesome stuff. The R opening was slightly larger and mint mark was slightly rotated SE. I really appreciate the info. Love learning.
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53910 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2021  11:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coop to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For future references:
1. When posting images of full words, make sure to include the outer open areas of the devices. _GOD_. The full outside edges will be helpful to make side by sides. Note your image of GOD? The full devices are not there on both ends. Without the full outside edge, it makes it harder to determine where the devices would have ended. I crop those edges on the outsides of the word. The full view is compared with other normal/doubled dies.
2. Like the word TRUST. If you have the full word it is a lot better than having parts of the word. Then I have to figure out how much to rotate the image to make them connect again.

Also I have to resize to make them the same height. On the motto devices the IN GOD is rotated 35 degrees CW.

On TRUST it is rotated 30 CCW. That is how I create my images.

Thus you have the full word and no altering that word. Also on 'WE', I included the 'D' in GOD and The first 'T' in trust in the same image.

If you can see the spread of a DDO from that distance, it is too minor to consider. If you have to have a single device enlarged to huge, it is too minor to consider. Coin contact and very minor doubled dies, aren't much in demand. Just like minor RPMs, are hard to list or consider listing. Too minor, they will not get listed.
3. Liberty also is better in a single word than broke down. On the sites they break them down. But with the devices straight, it makes if easier. Thus you just have to consider the size of the devices in the image. (yes they can be two different sizes) So in order to use these, then I place lines under the devices to make sure they are level, before sizing them. That makes them all the same exact size:

4. Also we get a lot of complaints here on the forum about rotated images. We are used to seeing things a certain way. I prefer the devices level. Date and Liberty is easy. So if you can't rotate the images because you don't have the correct software, do this: Take the images with the devices lever, before clicking the image. Can you imaging being called down to a police line up and they people were all laying down on the floor? Could you ID a suspect with them all laying flat on the floor? We are used to seeing people vertical. That way height and weight will be noticed. Context is better if they are in the position we are used to see them in. Same for coin devices. Rotated with the word horizontal makes us easier to determine what really is there, and what isn't there. So before you click, make sure the devices are in the position that we can determine what is there. That will help all to learn and have more useful images for the threads. Easier to have the image angle before the click. Slight rotations may still be needed though, but easier when the though was put into the image, before the shot.

CoopHome: How can taking the right image at the right angle help show what I see on my coins?
Richard S. Cooper
Some have asked about my images I use and I'm glad to say, you can now you can see the DVD in sections on youtube:
1. Intro, older coins, toned coins 2. Doubled dies 3. Die events, One of a kind errors 4. So called errors, Coin information 5. Coin information Types and Varieties, Overlays
Jefferson nickel doubled dies Wexler/Rebar complete listings

trail dies:http://www.traildies.com/
Edited by coop
09/20/2021 12:21 pm
Valued Member
United States
83 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2021  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DACWG183 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Got it. That makes perfect sense. I will do that in the future. I appreciate the time you have taken to explain these things. Certainly helps tremendously.
Valued Member
United States
83 Posts
 Posted 09/20/2021  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DACWG183 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coop. What variety do you think I could find as far as DDO that is most common? Easiest to find? I've looked seems forever but would like to focus on a specific year. Which do you suggest?
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