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Full Or Partial Bare Belly 1990 Nickel?

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 Posted 10/14/2021  09:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I meant for the topic to be discussed away from my original post which is why I started this thread, it's confusing bouncing back and forth to two different threads on the same topic, I'm sure they will be merged as I requested.

I'd love to hear what you all conclude on this one, if it turns out to be a die polish as stated on basically every site I can accept that, I'm not completely convinced about what it is listed as so I decided to bring it up.
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 Posted 10/14/2021  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Look up the Coin News, Oct. 4, 3013 article on Philly Mint polishing proof coin dies, at this time period the US and RCM were using mostly the same presses and procedures in minting coins, At this time the RCM was probably under some budget controls and they might have been ordered to save worn dies by polishing used dies without much worries about quality
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 Posted 10/14/2021  09:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Merged, thanks!!:)
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 Posted 10/14/2021  10:43 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wrote an extensive article on this specific coin in the CN Journal

See: Canadian Spice, May 2014, vol. 54, No. 4, p. 200-203

Yet another reason to become an RCNA member, is that you have access to ALL the archives issues of the CN Journal, and a wealth of information.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 10/14/2021  10:46 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Bare bellies occur when a reverse die has been over polished, the lines you are seeing is just from the polishing.


This is true for the 1942 Tombac strikes, but most definitely is NOT the case for the 1990 strike.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Canada
1641 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2021  10:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I plan on becoming a member at some point, still many things I need to get, though maybe I'll join before purchasing some of the books I wanted to get, I imagine most of the information I want would available to RCNA members. I am really curious as to what actually caused this so if the only way to find out is to join then that alone is enough incentive for me lol.
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 Posted 10/14/2021  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This is true for the 1942 Tombac strikes, but most definitely is NOT the case for the 1990 strike.


SPP-Ottawa, I will have to check in to that on the RCNA site when I become a member, along with a few other things. I just naturally assumed that the lines were from polishing as that is what most bare bellies occur from like the 1978 example below.


Quote:
I have tried to set up an off-site discussion with Johnwayne007 away from this site. John, if you and Roger want in, then we can set it up.


Okiecoiner, My phone has been damaged and is currently being fixed so I only have access via laptop and my communications are somewhat limited for the time being but you have my email and it is always open!

I posted a 1978 bare belly a couple months back that show how severe die polishing can get.

Normal Rev.


Over polished Rev.
Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
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 Posted 10/14/2021  11:12 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I could share the article here, but I really feel that the annual membership fee to the RCNA is a small sacrifice that truly improves the hobby overall for us here in Canada. Compared to the US and other countries, the Canadian collector base is actually very, very small, and an even smaller fraction of those are RCNA members. I feel obligated to support my national organization that in turn, promotes my hobby.

Apologies for the tangent to the thread here. My original intention was to point out that this exact question on the 1990 bare belly has been published.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 10/14/2021  11:14 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, that 1978 is an over polished die. Note the differences with the 1990 strike.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1041 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2021  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnWayne007 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I could share the article here, but I really feel that the annual membership fee to the RCNA is a small sacrifice that truly improves the hobby overall for us here in Canada


100% agree, although I am not a member yet, having access to a plethora of answers that have been well documented and/or studied by well-known/respected individuals in this hobby is well worth a fee on its own.

I retract my statement about the 1990 bare belly nickel being the result of an over-polished die and I am pausing my opinion on the 1990 anomaly until I can do further research and check out the RCNA site.
Searching Canadian Small Cents daily since 2018.

Some of my Discoveries.
1941 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO http://goccf.com/t/367977
1951 Georgivs VI 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/363635
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 1 http://goccf.com/t/373627
1976 Queen Elizabeth II 1 Cent DDO Type 2 http://goccf.com/t/408163
1989 Belize 25 Cent's DDR http://goccf.com/t/362747
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1641 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2021  11:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lol so has my question I guess will have to wait a few months to get answered it appears. I don't think it was even concluded that this is an issue with die polishing or something else, or die polishing mixed with something else.

It does appear I had the right idea though questioning this error and how it is listed.

Thanks for all the info this could have gone back and forth for a while lol. My fiance has been looking for a job since she has been off work since my son was born so once she is back to work I won't be living paycheck to paycheck and can hopefully afford a membership along with some other things.

Edit: I also agree with supporting these sorts of organizations, much like any thing else information is not always free if you want the in depth, you did all the research and wrote the article so asking for free info is like asking a writer for a free book.
Edited by Wrekkdd
10/14/2021 11:34 am
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 Posted 10/14/2021  11:39 am  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will share one figure from that paper... this is specifically on the die polish seen on the 1990 bare belly (I had a nice MS-64 version when I wrote this). Note that in 1990, the RCM polished the dies in two different orientations. Below the main device (beaver and lodge) in an east-west direction, and above the main device in a north-south direction. Through simple cross-cutting relationships (a principle I apply often in geology), top half of the die was polished first, then the bottom half.

So yeah, all that to say, it has nothing to do with polishing of the dies.

"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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1641 Posts
 Posted 10/14/2021  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very generous of you to share that info @SPP-Ottawa and thank you for confirming my theory that it is not a die polish issue(that would have bugged me for a while lol) can't wait to have the extra cash to join and read your article, along with all the other knowledge I can gain from the RCNA!
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 Posted 10/14/2021  12:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll dig out the article from all my old CNJ's. Thanks for reminding me (again) about it. My memory has a little shorter fuse now that I'm over 75.
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 Posted 10/14/2021  1:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, I read the article and things are clearer now for me, especially since some of the bum info being tossed around started with an author with the initials J.R. from the CCN. It just goes to show how that, once something is written down on paper and published (or posted), it's hard to turn the faucet off to stop the continued "passing around" of bum or incorrect info. I will continue to go with fellow collectors that I know and respect, rather than some information that can be found in Charlton or CCN or any other supposedly up-to-date mass-produced pub.
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