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Lodz Ghetto Marks - Legitimate?

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New Member

Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2021  5:00 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Elykius to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hello, I am curious as to what peoples opinions of these coins are, and whether or not they are legitimate. I have seen a number of old posts about other ghetto marks, and hopefully someone that is knowledgeable on this topic could give some insight. Thanks!





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United States
108132 Posts
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
19345 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2021  7:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Elikius: to the CCF!

I have never researched them, but pictures suggest genuine.
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United States
21924 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2021  9:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@eli, first welcome to CCF. Second, if you use the search box in the upper left hand part of your screen with the keywords LODZ GHETTO, you will see several prior thread discussing these tokens. We do have a couple members who are quite knowledgeable in this area and will hopefully weigh in on your pieces.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
New Member
Australia
15 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2021  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ClusterCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,

I have both the 5 and 10 Mark Lodz coins graded as genuine by PCGS.

Both of your coins appear to be genuine. There are Chinese made counterfeits being sold on eBay right now, but they don't get the details right. The '1943' looks quite different on fake coins, and they fail to replicate the corrosion.

The top coin however is just too dark to determine whether it's genuine or not. The coins were made of aluminium, with possibly some magnesium mixed in. Quality control back then obviously wasn't a top priority, but I wouldn't know what could turn a coin like that black. There are some anecdotes that people tried to burn the coins for heat, so maybe it was charred that way.
Valued Member
Poland
58 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  03:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gumer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Elykius
All three coins are genuine. First one was minted in magnesium. Second and third are minted in aluminium.
Valued Member
Poland
58 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  03:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gumer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ClusterCoin
"There are some anecdotes that people tried to burn the coins for heat...."

Only ONE person said that during testimony after the war. I was looking for this document, here in Poland, but I couldn't find it. No one else from the ghetto had ever confirmed these words.
New Member
Australia
15 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  07:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ClusterCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@gumer:
"Only ONE person said that during testimony after the war."

I agree. I read the information from only one site and could never find any confirmation. Maybe someone did try, but this didn't appear to be common practice from what I've read.

There appears to be incorrect information about the 5 Mark coin, either on Wikipedia or PCGS. Wiki claims a mintage of 32 million coins, while PCGS states 600,000. As there was less than 200,000 people in ghetto at any one time, I suspect the 32 million figure is highly inflated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lodz_Ghetto_mark

https://www.PCGS.com/news/lodz-ghet...oken-coinage


By the way, I know a dealer in possession of what's claimed to be a genuine 20 Mark coin. It's quite expensive and he hasn't sent it in for grading. I think he should.
Edited by ClusterCoin
11/14/2021 07:06 am
Valued Member
Poland
58 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  09:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gumer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ClusterCoin
I wonder where the information about the number of coins comes from. While writing books about the ghetto money and browsing through thousands of documents in the archives, I never found any information about how many coins were minted.

Do you have a photo of this coin? It's very easy to verity if this coin is genuine or not.
Valued Member
United States
165 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  4:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add newguy22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"The Diary of Dawid Sierakowiak: Five Notebooks from the Lodz Ghetto" is a great book to read for anyone who has an interest in these coins. I think there are a few moments where he alludes to the use of these coins and banknotes, but he describes them with the slang terms the people in the ghetto were using to describe them. "Chaim Rumkowski" tokens or something...
New Member
Australia
15 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  7:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ClusterCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@gumer
"Do you have a photo of this coin? It's very easy to verity if this coin is genuine or not."

I don't have a photo of it, and probably can't get one for at least a few weeks unfortunately. The asking price was US$1600, which is quite high for an ungraded coin if you ask me.
New Member
Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  7:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Elykius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@jbuck @sel_69l @Spence
Thank you for your welcomes!

@ClusterCoin and @gumer
Thank you very much for your responses & information. I will admit that I was hoping you would respond gumer, as I have read the other posts on these forums (as well as some other sites) about these coins and it seems like you are pretty much the world expert when it comes to ghetto marks specifically, so you judging them as authentic is quite a relief!
Valued Member
United States
165 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  8:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add newguy22 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Cluster

$1,600 is quite high for one of these tokens, unless you're planning to purchase a 20 mark piece. I've heard those are extremely rare though. I'm not sure if the one in the photo is even authentic or not. Gumer would know, he's the expert here for this series.



I purchased a 10 mark piece a while back for around $180. Prices I've seen range from $95-$350 depending on condition and guarantee of authenticity.
New Member
Australia
15 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2021  8:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ClusterCoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@newguy22:
"$1,600 is quite high for one of these tokens, unless you're planning to purchase a 20 mark piece"

$1600 was for the 20 Mark coin. I don't know whether that's a realistic price, as the market is so small for them.

My 5 and 10 Mark slabbed coins were couple of hundred dollars each, but were graded as Details even though the corrosion on them is quite small. It's difficult getting one without any corrosion.
Edited by ClusterCoin
11/14/2021 8:28 pm
Valued Member
Poland
58 Posts
 Posted 11/15/2021  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gumer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Elykius
Thank you. I'm glad I could help.

@newguy22
It's a genuine 20 mark coin.

@ClusterCoin No problem, I can wait. I think grading services do not always guarantee the originality of the coins. I've seen at least several fake ghetto coins in US slabs. I reported many of them here, at the forum. I wonder what can you do if you buy coin in slab which turns out to be false?
New Member
Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 12/01/2021  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Elykius to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@gumer
Hey, I came across another one. Its from the same source, so I assume its probably also legitimate, but would you be willing to verify? Thanks!


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