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What Is Meant By Graceless?

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Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  1:27 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I have the Canada Major type coins album it has a label for a nickel "graceless " .What does that mean ?
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United States
5423 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  1:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting.
Now I'm also waiting for a description.
Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
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Canada
2532 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  1:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It means it's Without de gratia. just read an article on these.

Edit: De gratia is latin for the grace of god so when it was removed on 1911 coins there was an outrage so they were called graceless/godless.
Edited by Wrekkdd
11/30/2021 1:58 pm
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Canada
4817 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1911 was the first year of KGV and when making the new obverse they forgot to add DEI GRATIA to the Obverse legeng which translates to "By the grace of God". 1911 is therefore graceless and is the only year such a mistake exists.
feel free to call me Will. I'm a 21 year old collector/dealer from the Greater Toronto area

my PMs are always open, whether you have a question or simply wish to talk!
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Canada
4132 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1911 was the year of a new Monarch. The first obverse, in 1911 omitted the words "Dei Gratia" which means that the King ruled by the Grace of God, as it was for all the Victoria Obverses. The public didn't like it one bit so, in 1912, the "Dei Gratia" was returned to the obverses. That's what meant by "graceless" since it wasn't dictated on the Obv.

Well, I see that dollarman typed in the answer while I was getting a soda and then posted it without knowing.
Edited by okiecoiner
11/30/2021 1:58 pm
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United States
5423 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  1:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kanga to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Wrekkdd beat me to it.

I did some more searching an came up with this:
Dei gratia = by the grace of God.

Apparently some 1911 Canadian 5 cent coins don't have that inscription on the coin.
Hence, "graceless".
Describe it as if there were no picture.
Picture it as if there were no description.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2532 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  2:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think all 1911 5,10, and 25 coins were missing DE GRATIA. I couldn't find any info on there being a variety so I think there is just the graceless for 1911.
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Canada
4817 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Check thedollarman's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add thedollarman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Apparently some 1911 Canadian 5 cent coins don't have that inscription on the coin.



Actually every 1911 coin lacked it..if you ever come across any 1911 coin with DEI GRATIA, you have an immensely rare pattern
feel free to call me Will. I'm a 21 year old collector/dealer from the Greater Toronto area

my PMs are always open, whether you have a question or simply wish to talk!
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  2:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok thanks for the explanation. It seemed as labeled in the album as if it was a variant of the 1911 Nickel .
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Canada
518 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  2:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinman91 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Speaking of which, it's mentioned in the history article below the 1911 dollar coin did include "DEI GRATIA" and its speculated that had something to do with the decision to abort them.
Quote:
An official reason why the Borden government cancelled production has yet to be discovered. But in a letter to Evelyn Cecil, MP, Deputy Master Bonar appears to associate it with the removal of the reference to God (Dei Gratia) from Canada's coins.
RCNA Member

There's always two sides to the coin if you have the patience to see. -Kathryn Budig
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2532 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  2:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is there a spot for 1911 that does not say graceless?
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The 1960 Whitman album for nickels 1858-1921 has only a 1911 spot . The album I referenced earlier was produced by La Habra " continental Line" is not nickel specific but examples of every George the V coin . Only the Penny Nickel quarter and 50 cent have a spot for graceless .Not the dime for some reason but I have all the 1911 coins above and they all have the same writing on the reverse. I apologize for my lack of proper terminology.
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a close up of the 1911 Nickel

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Canada
518 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  3:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add coinman91 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's odd because Coinscanada shows the dime also without "DEI GRATIA" (graceless).
RCNA Member

There's always two sides to the coin if you have the patience to see. -Kathryn Budig
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Canada
4132 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add okiecoiner to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Before we get into more "what ifs", ALL 1911 coins were "graceless" and ALL 1912 coins and after have Dei gratia. It's because there was a new King after 1910, so all the 1911's don't have reference to Gratia in the Obverse when they designed for George..
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Canada
2532 Posts
 Posted 11/30/2021  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Other then the 1$ coin that's in a museum from what I read
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