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What Do We Have Here? Mystery Coin 1649

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 406Next Topic  
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2021  8:12 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Appears to have silver plate rubbing off showing copper.

Valued Member
United States
161 Posts
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2021  9:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes good find that the coin however it's must be counterfeit with copper showing thru.
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United States
21998 Posts
 Posted 12/05/2021  9:23 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps a circulating counterfeit. What does it weigh?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Pillar of the Community
United States
5245 Posts
 Posted 12/15/2021  12:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin is a circulating contemporary counterfeit, and it is actually quite valuable as such. I really like it.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2021  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Swamper what does "circulating Contemporary Counterfeit" mean?
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Canada
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 Posted 12/17/2021  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm pretty sure a contemporary circulation counterfeit means it was made during the same time as the real coins to pass as fake currency. I don't own any but I know some collectors love these.

Edit:I probably missed something in my explanation, I have barely done any research on old coins like these.
Edited by Wrekkdd
12/17/2021 2:28 pm
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 12/17/2021  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry for asking, I googled the term .Interesting for sure . Any idea what it could be worth ?
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Canada
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 Posted 12/17/2021  2:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Value I have no clue. I'm sure the experts can let you know that. I have never bothered looking into coins pre 1800, I may purchase some in the future to have something that so old though.
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United States
5245 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2021  01:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Contemporary Circulating Counterfeit coins (CCC) were originally made to enter circulation alongside genuine examples. That is the correct definition.

CCC's are one of two major types of non-genuine coins. The second type are coins made to deceive coin collectors, referred to as Numismatic Forgeries (NF). The second type are basically worthless (or melt) because they are often still being made and are readily available inexpensively directly from the manufacturers.

The first type CCC's are collectable because they tend to be scarcer than the genuine issues and they are historic. They are much less expensive only because demand is low. There are not many of us who specialize in this type of material.

Counterfeiters always make coins that will pass unnoticed into circulation. That is why it is very important to know what methods of manufacture were available to counterfeiters while the genuine coins were still circulating in large numbers.

The coin here is a French 1/2 Ecu of Louis XIV dated 1649 minted supposedly in Rouen KM 164.3. It is a common coin. Had it been a rare type it would be more suspicious. So it passes test 1.

In the late 1600's and early 1700's during the most likely period of circulation there were just three methods of making counterfeits available. They were the fouree technique, casting both used since antiquity and tinning which was equally ancient, but which was not rediscovered for use in Europe until about 1620. So, it is most likely a tinned copy. It also looks like a Sheffield plate, but that technique was not introduced until about 1780.

So, I for one would be willing to take the chance and classify it as CCC at least until I could complete scientific testing needed to confirm the coating is tin.

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My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2021  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Impressed how much you know so much about coins thankyou for taking the time to educate .
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 Posted 12/19/2021  6:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What I learned about counterfeit coins began with my Uncle who was a professional counterfeiter and several members of his crew who explained the how's and why's of counterfeiting for profit as it existed in the 1930s. My uncle was the philosopher of the group and he taught me the rules for counterfeiting. These principles have not changed since antiquity.

In school and after I loved history and learning in general. It was very easy to see how my uncle's principle could be used throughout history. I also studied industrial history and mining to get a feeling for the history of developments critical to counterfeiting and the identification of contemporary counterfeit coins.

Any questions at all that I might be able to help with - I will certainly try to answer.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
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United States
5245 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2021  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You also asked what it might be worth. I would guess someplace north of $50 could result in an eBay auction. The Ecu counterfeits are a bit more common and often reach that level.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2021  10:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sold one counterfeit on Ebay but it would not allow me to post this one . Not sure why .
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United States
5245 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2021  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
First do not use the word Counterfeit. The coin is technically not a counterfeit since it is not a copy of a current coin. Making one today would be a fraud, but this is an old one.

The problem is that eBay sorts on the one word "counterfeit". Instead say "NON-Regal" issue or call it "contemporary".

You may need to wait for a little time to pass before re-posting it.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Valued Member
Canada
251 Posts
 Posted 12/19/2021  11:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westy00 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok thanks
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