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Are All Coins From Eastern Europe Forgeries?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
5286 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  5:21 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
At times it appears that coins coming from some areas of the world are always counterfeit.

I know having worked for eBay as an authenticator that such beliefs are rather prevalent. But it is not always the case.

I saw this coin posted today on eBay.


Based on the seller's location it could be rejected. Based on the seller's feedback it also could be rejected. However, if it is no one learns anything.

So, without disclosing the eBay number or seller's location or feedback score, what do you say? Would you consider buying this coin for $28.?

Is that risky?

Any comments?

My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1511 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  7:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mrwhatisit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It almost has that 'too freshly struck' look to it, I am a tad leery on it... But if genuine, that is an awesome price for it, that I would not hesitate to get... And for some folk, 28 bucks is not all that much just to determine if it is genuine.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5286 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  7:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting - 22 people have looked only one has volunteered to give an opinion. Please chime in if we are to learn.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4477 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  7:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At the very least I would want to know the weight, and its magnetism, plus have some confidence that I could get a refund if it fails tests in hand. Before I bought it I would compare it closely with some genuine ones.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5286 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  7:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
oriole - The coin weighs 27.0 grams and it is non-magnetic. It rings when struck. Return policy is not stated, but you do have eBay guarantee. Return postage is say $5.

Now what would everyone say? Buy it or not?

My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Pillar of the Community
United States
657 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Westwood Arms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The snake doesn't have a tongue.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4477 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I compared this to one I have from the same mint, year 1885. It seems to match well although the lettering seems a bit larger. On a lot of my 8 reales, the snake's tongue does not show that well.

So yes I think that I would risk buying it if I needed/ wanted that particular item.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5286 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  8:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Westwood Arms Precisely correct. One of a couple dozen tells for that particular die.

The coin uses the incorrect eagle design. The eagle design is the standardized design used at all mints in Mexico in the latter part of the second Republic. That design is one that every collector of 8 reales needs to be able to instantly identify. Why? Because many forgers in China and Eastern Europe use it along with basically any date and mint combination to create forgeries. I have seen over 100 different dates that use this reverse on eBay - NOT ONE of which is genuine.

In most cases, I refuse to bid a total of more than $10 (incl shipping) in an attempt to secure a single example to learn from. To date I have lost every single one I have bid on. One brought over $180. Insane.

This is a worthless pressure casting which actually costs under $1 to produce. More like 10 cents actually.

If you buy one - the postage alone provides the full profit for the forger. They do not normally pay return shipping, so it is eBay who pays customer losses. In all cases the forger makes out best.

None of these should ever sell.

I suspect these molds were created by 3D printing of the molds used. I have seen a few that date back a year or so when they were experimenting with the technology. Looks like it is better now.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4477 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add oriole to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, it is a good thing that I don't put much money into these things. I have much to learn...
Pillar of the Community
United States
5286 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  8:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is the correct eagle design for the 1875 Go coin.



But if you ever see the first reverse on any 8R dated before 1882 with the exception of Mexico City coins - do not bid.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Pillar of the Community
United States
657 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2022  11:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Westwood Arms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Bob, at a coin show someone identified a coin as a "high pressure cast." Is that different than a "pressure cast?"
Pillar of the Community
United States
5286 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2022  04:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Basically, pressure castings come in various type depending on the manufacturing techniques employed.

High pressure castings are typically injection moldings done under very high pressures to create very fine detail castings in metal. The process is quicker than low pressure casting and uses metals with low melting points, like tin, zinc and lead.

Pressure castings (or Low Pressure castings) are more typically seen when trying to reduce surface bubbles in metal castings by maintaining pressure until the injected metal hardens. It is a slower production method, but equipment used is less costly.

Centrifugal casting is also in the same general family of processes.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
Pillar of the Community
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United States
1125 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2022  12:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgenn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While the asking price is $10 USD over melt, a genuine coin in that condition would never be sold for $28, so that is really all I need to know to tell me it is so unlikely to be genuine and that I would never risk buying it.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5286 Posts
 Posted 01/28/2022  01:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jgenn While I agree that your analysis is correct and that no one should buy these coins. They actually do sell and for far more than $28.

Typically, they are sold at auction starting at $0.99, and they do sell.

In my opinion it is easier if the bidders know what to look for.
My book on Counterfeit Portrait 8Rs is available from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Counterfeit-.../1500497177/ or from me directly if you want it signed.
New Member
United States
35 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2022  6:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wizened to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There is a bum from Poland who has long been selling counterfeit Central American Republic 8 Reales. 18 in the last few months for $12-70 or so. These coins are obvious forgeries. Ebay has stopped one ID after he sold all those fakes, but another fraudster ID will pop up soon enough to continue. Gullible people are buying them. This is demonstration of how there is wholesale fraud going on, and it seems to be centered on foreign sellers

Your 8R Mexico example looks pretty good, but others have said it is fake. To me the lettering and the leaves look weak, and should not since the coin has no obvious signs of wear and so leaves and lettering should be sharp.

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United States
23237 Posts
 Posted 02/19/2022  6:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just reading this thread now. Thx for helping me learn something @swamp!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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