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Antoninus Pius Denarius With A Strange Reverse

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 12 / Views: 467Next Topic  
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 Posted 05/07/2022  4:52 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Denarii Safari to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi - I wonder if I could pick the hive mind for ideas. I haven't had much luck finding the reverse of the Antoninus Pius denarius we bought about 12 years ago from Spink in York. I've trolled through a number of websites that show images of all kinds, just not what we have. I'd like to find out a good date range, where it was minted if possible, and exactly what the figure on the reverse is meant to be. See pictures - many thanks for any help!

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 Posted 05/07/2022  5:04 pm  Show Profile   Check Tanman2001's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Tanman2001 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
https://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.4.crl.54B

Actually looks to be Caracalla. 201 AD, Rome Mint, two captives seated next to trophy.
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 Posted 05/07/2022  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Denarii Safari to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes! I see that - thank you! I made the newbie mistake of expecting that the emperor on the front was in power when it was minted. I'll have to read up on this a bit more, but I'm sure you solved it. What does PARTMA mean?
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 Posted 05/07/2022  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Denarii Safari,
. Very nice photos.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 05/07/2022  6:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PART MAX...stands for "Parthica Maxima." Linked to the reverse portrayal of trophy with 2 captives = Victory over the Parthians.
PONT..Pontifex Maximus = high priest.
TRP...Power of the tribune.For IIII (four years).

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 Posted 05/08/2022  5:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Your coin was indeed issued by an emperor named Antoninus Pius, just not the one you were expecting. There were in fact three Roman emperors named "Antoninus Pius". The second is known to history as Caracalla. The third we call Elagabalus. All three are named 'Antoninus Pius' on the coins. For the most part, they can be distinguished by their portraits.
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 Posted 05/09/2022  10:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Denarii Safari to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really appreciate all the information - I was not expecting three emperors by the same name, at least on coins.
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 Posted 05/09/2022  2:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Your coin was indeed issued by an emperor named Antoninus Pius, just not the one you were expecting. There were in fact three Roman emperors named "Antoninus Pius". The second is known to history as Caracalla. The third we call Elagabalus. All three are named 'Antoninus Pius' on the coins.


IIRC if a coin says "Antoninus Pius" in this order, without intervening titles, it's probably Caracalla or Elagabalus, not the original Antoninus Pius.
AFAIK technically they (all three) were named Marcus Aurelius Antoninus; "Pius" is another title. "Elagabalus" is a divine name (El ag-Gabal - "God of the Mountain") that the respective emperor usurped for himself. I forgot what Caracalla means.

to CCF!
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 Posted 05/10/2022  04:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Caracalla was born Lucius Septimius Bassianus. In A.D. 195 Septimius Severus had himself posthumously adopted by Marcus Aurelius and was renamed Marcus Aurelius Antoninus at the age of 7 as a part of his father's attempt to legitimise his reign. Caracalla was given the rank of Caesar at this point taking the rank away from Clodius Albinus who had previously been given the rank by Septimius Severus. This act led to Albinus rebelling and declaring himself Augustus but that is another, short lived story. Caracalla was appointed as joint Augustus with his father in A.D. 198.

We don't know that he was really referred to as Caracalla, which was a Gallic hooded tunic that he wore and apparently made fashionable, as we rely on information from later historians. I seem to recall that one claims be was referred to as Tarautas, who was a violent gladiator of the day..

Here are some representative examples of some of their portraits for stylistic comparison.

Antoninus Pius is quite distinctive:-
This is one of his earliest portraits dating to February 25th to July 10th A.D. 138 when he was Caesar under Hadrian and aged 51.



A fairly typical portrait - This one dating to A.D. 153 where he is aged about 66.



And a Posthumus example dating to A.D. 161 after his death aged 74



For Caracalla we can see a wide range of portraits all the way from his boyhood through to manhood.

Here he is about 8 in A.D. 196 and titled Caesar



In A.D. 198 he is raised to joint Augustus



A.D. 207



A.D. 211



A.D. 217

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 Posted 05/10/2022  05:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Elagablus was born Varius Avitus Bassianus and was cousin to Caracalla. He adopted the name Marcus Aurelius Antoninus upon becoming emperor in A.D. 218 aged around 14.It is thought that it is only posthumously though the historians that he was named Elagabalus which is the latinised name of his god. He reign is relatively short from A.D 218 to 222

This coin dates to early in his reign at A.D. 218



Some examples from A.D. 220-222 showing varying degreed of facial hair....




Some "horned" examples from A.D. 222




Here is an example with "ELAGAB" named on the reverse.



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 Posted 05/10/2022  06:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We could have simply called them Antoninus Pius I, Antoninus Pius II and Antoninus Pius III, but instead, historians, since ancient times, have called II and III by their nicknames. Perhaps because both Caracalla and Elagabalus were considered "bad emperors", and the historians felt they were unworthy of being allowed the historical association of sharing a name with the original Antoninus Pius, universally regarded as a "good emperor".

Cassius Dio, a Roman historian who wrote his history of Rome just after Elagabalus died, refers to Caracalla as "Antoninus", but Elagabalus as "Sardanapalus", a pseudonym; the original "Sardanapalus" was the Roman name for the semi-mythical "last Assyrian emperor", whose decadent corruption destroyed his country.

Quote:
It is thought that it is only posthumously though the historians that he was named Elagabalus which is the latinised name of his god.

There are some scarce coins where El-Gabal is named, though it seems to be honouring the deity itself rather than assigning a name or title to the emperor. For example, there's a gold aureus on his Wikipedia page, depicting on the reverse the god-rock driving a chariot, naming it "SANCT DEO SOLI ELAGABAL".
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 05/10/2022  07:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reverse of my last coin above is another example of the same reverse legend "SANCT DEO SOLI ELAGABAL".
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