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1931-D Lincoln Help Grade

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3098 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2022  01:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I agree with silviosi on this one, eye appeal should effect value but should not effect overall grade imo as eye appeal is subjective. Where as original mint luster should be taken into account as it's damage if the luster is less or no longer present. Just my opinion though.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12211 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2022  08:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
eye appeal should effect value but should not effect overall grade imo as eye appeal is subjective.


the problem with your statement is that the components that a TPG uses in their grading assessment are: Strike, Luster, Surface Preservation and eye appeal. and this is why all grading is subjective. if grading was objective we would have an APP that would assess a coin and return a grade


Quote:
Help me with seeing a weak strike. I know there are signs but I haven't picked up on that yet


the details in the hair is a tad weak, the collar around the neck area and where the bowtie is melded to the lapel. the left side of the motto is also a little weak. keep in mind that that this is very minor but I like to point out what led me to my grade. I graded it MS65+ with a shot at 66 and I think it would make 66 if it was a tad sharper. Also, we dont have the coin in hand to see the amount of luster remaining if any. as you aware lighting can affect assessments greatly. I like that your photos are not overly lit but it can tend to dull what the actual surfaces look like. I think there is more luster there than what the photos are showing.

KYCopperCoins: cant compare a trueview photo to an in hand photo. post in hand photos for a valid comparison

Pillar of the Community
United States
705 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2022  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

the details in the hair is a tad weak, the collar around the neck area and where the bowtie is melded to the lapel. the left side of the motto is also a little weak. keep in mind that that this is very minor but I like to point out what led me to my grade. I graded it MS65+ with a shot at 66 and I think it would make 66 if it was a tad sharper. Also, we dont have the coin in hand to see the amount of luster remaining if any. as you aware lighting can affect assessments greatly. I like that your photos are not overly lit but it can tend to dull what the actual surfaces look like. I think there is more luster there than what the photos are showing.

KYCopperCoins: cant compare a trueview photo to an in hand photo. post in hand photos for a valid comparison
Pillar of the Community
United States
705 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2022  11:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks as always panzaldi. The coin itself is fairly free of marks just not very attractive. I will try Badthad's suggestion. He knows as you do what your talking about.. My problem is viewing Ha.com and the PCGS website for ms-67 coins in the year I want to submit.. Magnification is high on those pictures but so is mine. The only thing I can figure is the luster which can not be captured in a photo.. I think if I adhere to this philosophy of submitting very lustrous coins nearly mark free, I should be alright. Some things I see on a coin that I don't like turn out to be from the mint depending on the year and they don't affect the grade.. Anyway I will know by the first of June if I have improved. I will man up and share if they are not what I expected and go back to the drawing board. I will also accept my a** chewing since I didn't expect anything less. Next submissions I will post pictures before submitting and ask each member who has been helping me to grade. then keep a record and tally of results to see who came near correct. Maybe we all can learn a little from this experience. As always thanks . I will go home and check the areas you determined to be suspect.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3831 Posts
 Posted 05/17/2022  11:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@grospoisson, you have photographed some Lincolns with beautiful luster, so I don't think lighting is the issue with this coin. I would suggest taking a photo of this Lincoln next to one of your others with excellent luster to see how the luster and color compare. If you can't capture luster in a photo, it's likely not there. And as @panzaldi pointed out, luster and eye appeal will definitely affect grade.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12211 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2022  11:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I will post pictures before submitting and ask each member who has been helping me to grade. then keep a record and tally of results to see who came near correct. Maybe we all can learn a little from this experience


this is great idea as I'm learning a lot from these assessments also as not too many folks are posting high end newer memorials. its not something you think of a lot so seeing how it was graded would be great to compare to what we thought and definitely help for future ones as I dont think you are going to stop anytime soon.
Pillar of the Community
United States
705 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2022  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:

this is great idea as I'm learning a lot from these assessments also as not too many folks are posting high end newer memorials. its not something you think of a lot so seeing how it was graded would be great to compare to what we thought and definitely help for future ones as I dont think you are going to stop anytime soon.


I not sure when I will stop. Some memorials in 67 are not cheap and what I am doing is not cheap. I can't know if I am improving without taking the test (submissions). As I have said before my submissions have slowed way down with input from the forum and I will post grades of my submissions and pictures then we all can learn.
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
2838 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2022  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting one. No opinion on grade or details. I see a soft central strike and mismatched die pairing. The obverse die looks EMDS/MDS with a much stronger peripheral strike than central strike (note the "LI" versus the "TY" of LIBERTY). The reverse die looks LMDS (note EPU). That seems to be most of the weakness that we are seeing.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12211 Posts
 Posted 05/22/2022  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
what I am doing is not cheap


i hear you on that. if I was doing this I would only submit ones that I felt I had a chance at solid 67 or the date is a better date in 66 that would warrant the costs. I would never submit any without multiple eyes on it through CCF. I think you are getting some good input to help you decide what to do. personally I would not submit anything that did not have a high possibility of pulling at least $200. I dont do slabbing except for a few I sent last year that I was looking to sell but I know from time to time some of them offer multiple grading discounts.

if you are not doing this I would number these coins and place that number in the title so that it can be referenced if you submit it. what will help is once you get one back repost or even better update the original post with the TPG grade to help everyone increase their grading abilities so that you get better future assessments. High end Memorials and not something that most people are used to grading. I'm learning along with you

how are you coming by these coins? are you buying UNC rolls and searching them or purchasing individual coins raw or ? just curious what your upfront costs are to find these
Pillar of the Community
United States
4648 Posts
 Posted 05/27/2022  01:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fenton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS detail, questionable color.
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