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S. Severus Denarius Laodicea Ad Mare Mint Ric 449?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 9 / Views: 347Next Topic  
Valued Member

France
229 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2022  01:58 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add pastpost to your friends list Get a Link to this Message


Dear friends,
I was recently offered to purchase this denarius.of S. Severus Denarius Laodicea ad Mare Mint
The coin Reverse: FORTR DEVG (as I have read). I can not find the coin with the similar revervse. More suitable coin in OCRE is RIC 449. http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.....449?lang=en
Obverse L SEPT SEV PERTE AVG IMP II - Head of Septimius Severus, laureate, right
Reverse: FORT REDVC. Fortuna, draped, standing left, holding cornucopiae in right hand and sceptre in left hand
What is the rarity of the coin?
Any information on the coin is welcome.

Valued Member
United Kingdom
463 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2022  06:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it's RIC 449A, with RDEVC and PERT instead of PERTE http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric....449A?lang=en

There are a few variations on the legend:
http://numismatics.org/ocre/results...s%22&lang=en

With ancients, legend variations are very common.
Valued Member
France
229 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2022  07:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pastpost to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@JohnConduitt-Thank you very much for the link. There is an error in the description in RIC 449A.
If you look at the photo, you can clearly see FORT P V EVG, not FORT RDEVC.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
463 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2022  08:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No I think it is FORT RDEVC. The 'P' is an R (perhaps on a damaged or filled die) and the first 'V' is a D with the top missing. Gs and Cs are very often indistinguishable on Roman coins.

Sometimes there are errors on Ocre but mostly in the coins linked to the page, not in the description. Occasionally the coin shown isn't what it should be. In this case, on the British Museum website the description says FORT RDEVC and RIC 449A, so it is the right coin and the right description.
Valued Member
France
229 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2022  09:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pastpost to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@JohnConduitt-Some of the coins presented at OCRE do not match the description. But in this case, I think you have correctly identified the coin as RIC 449A.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1876 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2022  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can I start by saying that it is a great coin and a type that I do not yet have.

I disagree with the description and attributions set out above.

The reverse type is Fortuna (Pietas) standing left, modius on head, sacrificing out of patera over altar and holding cornucopia.

The reverse legend reads FORT RDEVC. This legend occurs frequenmtly for this issue.

The obverse legend reads L SEPT SEV PE-RET AVG IMP II

The known legend variations include PERT, PERET, PERTE and rarely PERE witha variety of legend breaks.

I have 25 various examples of Fortuna coins from this issue from a larger variety of types. This Pietas type has evaded me thus far.

The closest coin in RIC would be a RIC 437A corr. described as

L SEP SEV PERT AVG IMP / FORT REDVC, Fortuna Pietas type

The IMP and IMP I issues described in RIC do not exist and are mis-readings of IMP-II and IMP I-I legend breaks.

I think it is a very scarce coin.

Valued Member
United Kingdom
463 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2022  6:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add JohnConduitt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmm yes you're right about the altar. It doesn't help that RIC is wrong about IMP (II). Although the legends are so far off RIC 437A does that simply make it 'not in RIC'?
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1876 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2022  05:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is not in RIC or RSC or BMCRE. The coin I cite as 437A corr is simply the closest that I know of in the references and comes with a footnote "Tinchant collection" and "of this mint?" which means that both RIC and BMCRE which both have similar notes have some doubts about the reading of the coin.

Here is a small sample of the other Fortuna types from my collection in this issue:-

Obv:- L SEPT SEV P-ERET AVG IMP I-I, Laureate head right
Rev:- FORT R-D-EVC, Fortuna standing left, holding rudder and cornucopiae
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare. A.D. 194
Reference(s) - BMCRE P. 106 (a) listed var.. RIC IV 440 corr. (440 is IMP I in error it is in fact IMP I-I as this coin but with second I off flan). RSC 153d corr. All citing RD p. 105.



As above but FORT R-DEVC



Obv:-L SEPT SEV P-ERET AVG IMP I-I, Laureate head right
Rev:- FORT R-E-DVC, Fortuna standing left holding rudder and cornucopiae
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare. A.D. 194
Reference(s) - BMC W429 var (seems to be same obverse die but different reverse legend break cf FORT R-EDVC). RIC 448 var (448 listed for PERT and PERTE)



Obv:- L SEPT SEV P-ERET AVG IMP I-I, Laureate head right
Rev:- FORT R-E-DEVC, Fortuna standing left holding rudder and cornucopiae
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare, A.D. 194
References:- RIC -. BMCRE -. RSC -. (REDEVC not listed)



Obv:- L SEPT SEV P-ERET AVG IMP II, Laureate head right
Rev:- FORT R AVG, Fortuna standing left, holding rudder and cornucopiae
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare. A.D. 194
Reference:- BMCRE -. RIC IV -. RSC -. (FORT R AVG legend not listed)



Obv:- L SEPT SEV P-ERET AVG IMP I-I, Laureate head right
Rev:- FORT R-DEVC, Fortuna seated left holding rudder and cornucopiae
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare. A.D. 194
Reference(s) - BMC W Page 108 * var (citing Cohen 168 though Cohen 168 is PERT). RIC 451 var (451 listed for PERT and noted for PERET (RD)). RSC 168 var (PERET for PERT)

Lamination issue that has left a lump of silver missing on the portrait



Obv:- L SEPT SEV PE-RET AVG IMP II, Laureate head right
Rev:- FORT R-D-EVC, Fortuna seated left holding rudder and cornucopiae
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare. A.D. 194
Reference:- BMC W Page 108 * var (citing Cohen 168 though Cohen 168 is PERT). RIC 451 var (451 listed for PERT and noted for PERET (RD)). RSC 168 var (PERET for PERT)



Obv:- L SEPT SEV PE-RTE AVG IMP II, Laureate head right
Rev:- FORTV R-EDVC, Fortuna seated left holding rudder and cornucopiae
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare. A.D. 194
Reference(s) - BMCRE Page 108 footnote. RIC -. RSC -



Obv:- L SEPT SEV P-ERTE AVG IMP II, Laureate head right
Rev:- FORT R-DEVC, Fortuna seated left holding rudder and cornucopiae
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare, A.D. 194-5
References:- RIC -. RSC-. BMC W Page 108 * (citing Cohen 168 though Cohen 168 is PERT though the BMC coin is described as PERTE)



As you can see there are LOTS of variations and most of these are NOT IN RIC.

Here is a small number of other ones....







Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1876 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2022  07:59 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add maridvnvm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is also worthy to note that the same "Fortuna(Pietas)" type occurs rarely on the following IMP VIII issue.

Obv:- L SEPT SEV PERT AVG IMP VIII, Laureate head right
Rev:- FORT R-EDVC, Fortuna (Pietas) standing left holding patera and cornucopia, sacrificing over altar
Minted in Laodicea-ad-Mare, A.D. 196-197
References:- BMC W444, RIC 479B (R2), RSC 168c

Valued Member
France
229 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2022  1:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pastpost to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@maridvnvm - Thanks a lot for your participation in the discussion. Your comments are helpful as always and have a lot of information for collectors that isn't in the catalogues.And thank you very much for the photos of the coins that you share in your comments.
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