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Back To The Old Topic Of Grading Banknotes

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 8 / Views: 553Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2601 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2022  06:48 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I live in England where third party grading isn't nearly as popular as the states. I guess out of my collection less than 1% are in PMG holders, because thats how I bought them so I have never spent a penny on sending any away for grading.

I have no clue what it would cost to grade 500 plus notes or whether it makes any sense to do so. Pressumable spending such an amount on aquiring notes I don't have seems more appealing.

I see however many of the notes sold at aiction are graded, even from the collections of demised collectors known not to get involved in such things so pressumably the auctionhouse has sent them for slabbing prior to sale leading me yo think there was an economic justification to such a thing.

So is it only worth it on expensive notes (doesn't it cost more?)

I can't quite get my head around why anyone does it. I am not confident in grading but this only seems to be an issue if selling notes (which I only recently started doing) and this is further confused by different grading conventions... so at present I am just describing any imperfections along with photographs.

Opinions please.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
45867 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2022  07:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am guessing it's the same as coins,the value of the coin or note needs to be worth more than all costs involved in having them graded.Your first step would be to determine the approximate grade of said note and look up current value. Then find out what all the costs are in sending them in. You might want to call the grading company and see if they offer a bulk note discount
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
Pillar of the Community
United States
5253 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2022  08:24 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hfjacinto to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi David

I'm like you in that the majority of my notes are raw and that is because majority are under $200 and I was able to purchase locally. If I was buying on EBay or on auction I would be more selective.

Do you need to grade notes? No, but if you want to sell online grading gives the buyer peace of mind and May get you more money (not more profit as you need to pay the grading fee), but if someone else graded them you really didn't pay to grade tgem.

I have about 230 notes and maybe 30 are graded, I'm not going to get the 200 graded anytime soon. I'm not a fan of coins and notes in the plastic coffin. But if I buy them on eBay I don't buy raw.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1746 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2022  09:51 am  Show Profile   Check walk2dwater's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add walk2dwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I remember when I got back into the hobby, around 2003, having this conversation ("to grade or not to grade") with some collector friends. We all were pretty much against it: all of us rather smug in our abilities to assess our note's condition.

Three years later, I attended one of my first RCNA conventions held in Niagara Falls. I saw my first set of replacement Devil Face notes (all UNC GEMS with EPQ graded by PMG). I must admit I think that was the moment the seed "to grade" was planted.

Anyway, I firmly remained in the say "NO" to TPG camp for several years. It wasn't until I came into some money & wanted to buy some 1935 Bank of Canada (BoC) notes in higher grade that I realized I wasn't going to throw my money on something that was washed or pressed. I was still buying a lot of currency online & not being able to inspect it had risks- so buying TPG seemed the only solution. This was around 2013/14 & I had to pay tax on some of my purchases which were the most expensive notes I had ever bought. I am still happy with these notes (compared to many raw purchases which seem disappointing now).

Anyway, to make a long story short, I finally turned 360 degrees on the issue of third party grading ( TPG) & encourage others to think twice about the merits of buying TPG. I started submitting my collection in batches of 50 or more notes to BCS (Banknote Certification Services) in Kitchener. Its been a bit painful but overall I couldn't be happier that 80% of my personal collection is graded.

I only wanted to grade my best notes & I tried to grade notes which I thought would get "Original" & UNC. I also wanted to grade notes which I figured would sell for about 5X the price of grading. Once I inspected some of them I knew I wouldn't be happy with all the grades I'd get back. I had bought a raw Devil's Face $5 off a shady auction site which was described as Choice UNC & it came back as AU50 (but at least Original). I had a few notes like that. You can see a lot of my newer (better) notes I got graded on this thread: http://goccf.com/t/417980

One of the bonuses of grading large batches was that BCS returned them with all my currency sleeves & in these lovely binders. The binders allowed me to re-organize & prioritize which notes to keep (& which ones need to find a new home).

So now I am at the point of wanting to sell off all the lower end notes that did not get graded. The website for BCS is:
http://www.banknotecertification.com/ but he only slabs BoC & CDN Chartered banknotes (unfortunately).
Edited by walk2dwater
05/23/2022 09:53 am
Pillar of the Community
Germany
778 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2022  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add redlock to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm not a fan of coins and notes in the plastic coffin.


Neither am I.
Bedrock of the Community
Learn More...
United States
70422 Posts
 Posted 05/23/2022  2:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Problem is, if you have even a fairly expensive note, you pretty much need to have it slabbed to get full value for it.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2601 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2022  03:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's interesting what people call an expensive note.

My collection is not comprised of $5000 notes. It has many $100-$200 notes and a few $1000 notes.

Like I say I am unaware what I would be charged to grade these but if we say $35 a note I doubt this money would be returned on the $100-200 notes and I am not thinking of srlling these notes at the moment anyway.

The notes I am selling are bassically doubles I have aquired buying other peoples collections. Most of thes are $50 value notes.

Also given I personally would never pay more for a note because its slabbed (and would actively try to buy the unslabbed note first) I am not sure I agree it needs to be slabbed to get full value in the UK.

Buying a parricular rare or commonly counterfeited note unseen or from a questionable source I can see the advantage. My one and only slabbed coin was bought on ebay, a mule coin where a common scam was to take photos of two different coins and scam the buyer... therefore a slabbed example offered me somd protection.

Later this week I will bid on a note which if I buy it will be the most expensive and rarest note in my collection. It is unslabbed and pressumably if they could get more for it slabbed it would already be in a slab.

The slab can offer protection against pressed notes, and I wonder how many of mine are pressed, or even lightly pressed by myself by virtue of sitting in rather full albums squeezed together on a shelf for many years. I hate to say it but such notes often appear more presentable than scrunched notes and it seems not to hurt the value as much as it once did since they photograph better and therefore sell online easily.

I am still in utter confusion about such things.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1746 Posts
 Posted 05/24/2022  5:07 pm  Show Profile   Check walk2dwater's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add walk2dwater to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The notes I am selling are bassically doubles I have aquired buying other peoples collections. Most of thes are $50 value notes.

-If this were me, I would not be submitting these (for others). The notes I discussed in my reply were graded for my personal collection. Sure, there were a few doubles that I graded simply b/c I got them through a trade or some inexpensive exchange & it would have been stupid not to grade the extra. So I did get a few extra (tough notes or special serial #) graded that I will sell but that wasn't my objective (at least 90% of the notes were for my collection) & had to meet a minimum grade/cost threshold. None were in the $1000.00 range but a minority may have been $200 - $500.


Quote:
The slab can offer protection against pressed notes, and I wonder how many of mine are pressed, or even lightly pressed by myself by virtue of sitting in rather full albums squeezed together on a shelf for many years.

I stored my notes vertically (in boxes) & now that I have the binders the notes stay vertical as the binders sit upright in my safe. They're a perfect fit for my safe too. I have always been a bit OCD about embossing & all the note's potential eye appeal.

Here's what the binder looks like on the outside:


Here's a $5 radar from the inside of the binder:


The mylar notes are sealed so no moisture can get in (or at least that's the idea) but I like the label, the way the note displays & is stored. When I submitted my bulk submissions, each note cost about $10 CDN (tax included) which is about $8USD/note. I drove to BCS & picked them up in person (binders were included)! I felt like I was getting a dealer's deal. On a later submission I dropped them off & the binders were shipped back to me.

Now I have a set of World currency I'd like to submit but I know I'm looking at a much steeper cost ($30+USD/note) & I have had this set sit in a box for 2 years. (This is like $40 CDN per note so its basically hard to imagine & my set keeps changing!) I have hesitated big time on that submission cost so I'll see, but it is a goal. I understand certification is not for every collector but I really like my CDN binders. I think its a little like a poker game- you're either "all in" or you just pass on it.
Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2601 Posts
 Posted 05/25/2022  05:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DavidUK to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
At $8 per note it wouldn't be so unattractive (but I would still prefer to spend the $5000+ on some new additions) at $30 per note it is not attractive a proposition for me at all.

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