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Question About Colour Designations For Coins.

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 6 / Views: 458Next Topic  
Pillar of the Community

Canada
3308 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2022  08:25 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
So I have never actually looked into it as I don't collect toonies and loonies really, is there a colour grading system for other denominations? I have only seen it on cents but as we all know the core on a toonie and the colour of a loonie changes with time, is there any sort of colour designation for these or does it effect grading? I have seen very dark coloured loonies that still look high AU or low MS as well as nice grade toonies with a core that is either darker or lighter etc.

Is this taken into account when grading or is it just cents that received a colour designation or RD, RB, BR? If this is the case why no colour designation for other coins that turn darker in time due to toning tarnish etc?
New Member
Canada
10 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2022  09:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Goofball to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'll let someone else provide a serious response, but this is one that I've never had a good opportunity to share:


Edited by Goofball
06/29/2022 09:43 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3308 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2022  12:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'll let someone else provide a serious response, but this is one that I've never had a good opportunity to share


Is that real? My main interest is, why is there colour designation on cents but not other coins(at least from what I have seen)
Edited by Wrekkdd
06/29/2022 12:01 pm
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Australia
14511 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2022  6:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
why is there colour designation on cents but not other coins(at least from what I have seen)

Perhaps it is because the colour spectrum for brass-coloured coins is more complex than for bronze/copper.

For bronze/copper, it is simple: red -> red/brown -> brown.

For brass, aluminium-bronze and similar gold-coloured alloys, it's more like:

Uncirculated: Pale-yellow -> golden -> yellow-orange -> tan -> brown -> brown-black
Circulated: Pale-yellow -> yellow-grey -> grey-brown ^

With that not necessarily being the order of formation, nor the order of desirability. For example, the ones toned slightly to make them golden or golden-yellow are more desirable than the mint-fresh pale-yellow.

Another factor in grader's reluctance to quantify the colour must be that brasses are generally more chemically reactive then bronzes, so the colour is likely to change quicker over time.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3308 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2022  3:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wrekkdd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks SAP, I missed your reply. That makes a bit of sense but even modern copper plated zinc coins with the smallest amount of copper plating are graded rd, Rb or br. I imagine it's due to the huge market with cents compared to other denominations.

I have seen toonie cores and loonies tone just as fast as cents yet no colour designation? Even with silver why not add toned to the lable?
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Australia
14511 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2022  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
even modern copper plated zinc coins with the smallest amount of copper plating are graded rd, Rb or br.

That's because copper-plated coins are still copper-coloured and, since they have a copper surface that's chemically identical to the surface of a solid copper coin, they have exactly the same colour transition, so the same labels can be applied.

Quote:
Even with silver why not add toned to the lable?

I suspect they don't mention toning because toning on silver is, like on brass, much harder to quantify. Silver tones black, which is almost universally regarded as "bad". But the opinions on the colours in between untoned ("white") and black vary widely. And, as with brass, there's a whole spectrum to account for, not to mention the different combinations of colours that can occur on the same coin. Just a simple "Toned" adjective isn't going to cut it. And it would be hard to put "red-gold toning on the obverse, blue-green on the reverse with occasional black spots" all on the label.

One of the advantages of including a colour on-label, means a sight-unseen price guide can be fixed. People universally agree on the price scale for coppers: red>>red-brown>brown, so the price guides can reflect this. But apart from "black is bad", there is no such universal opinion on the effect of toning for silver toned coins, because the broad spectrum of possible colours means people can have genuinely different opinions, which cannot be reflected in a price guide. You might like red-toned silver, I might like green, and the guy who writes the price guide might think blue is best. Why should you and I have to pay more, for coins that we actually like less, just because the price guide guy says so? And what about the people who dislike, and therefore require a discount for, toning of any kind? Their opinion about toning isn't "wrong", it's just "different". And the concept of a single unifying price guide cannot survive such differences of opinion.

How to handle toning, and the impact that toning can have on eye appeal and thus on perceived value, is one of the major drawbacks to the TPG "sight-unseen-sales" business model. The red-rb-brown scale attempt at quantifying this works well for copper, but wouldn't work for other metals.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
Pillar of the Community
Canada
4984 Posts
 Posted 06/30/2022  6:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A ms 66 or 67 version of a loonie or toonie would be quite nice the PL versions would be even nicer in all aspect regarding colour but there is no need for colour its part of the coins grading. Copper has its unique problems as previous expert already explained, the changes in being fully red to brown affects value so greatly that needs a grading on the label,
Edited by john100
06/30/2022 6:46 pm
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