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2004 D Peace Medal Nickel Struck On An Improperly Annealed Planchet

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 14 / Views: 687Next Topic  
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 Posted 07/11/2022  10:37 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CRHunting to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hey Everyone!
Recently I found an extremely dark 2004 D nickel that caught my eye. After doing some research I found a few other examples of 2004 D nickels that all exhibited the exact same coloring and that were certified by PCGS as Struck on an Improperly Annealed Planchet. Here's an example of one that sold on Heritage Auction:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/errors/200.../455-11502.s

I ended up submitting mine in a group of coins to ANACS. I checked ahead of time and made sure that ANACS does verify and label for improper annealing. I also specified the coin as improperly annealed on the form and submitted for error attribution.

The coin came back straight graded with no attribution. So that leaves 3 potential scenarios:

1. I made a mistake and am wrong about the coin error (always a possibility.)
2. PCGS was wrong and none of these coins are improperly annealed
3. ANACS was wrong and should have correctly labeled my coin as an error

I was hoping to get some insight form the community.

Thanks!

P.S.I apologize for the images. It's hard to take good close-ups of a slabbed coin.




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Valued Member
United States
147 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2022  12:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CRHunting to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for taking the time to view and respond! Do you have any input about what led you to that conclusion? Additionally, do you feel that way about the PCGS attributed coins too?

Below is an image of the coins side-by-side with the added normal nickel for comparison:

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 Posted 07/12/2022  04:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add I6609 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have never herd of such a coin is there anything about the weight of the coin that would help determine what you have
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 Posted 07/12/2022  10:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CRHunting to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for your comment. Improper annealing has to do with how the coin was heated.

"Copper, red, black, brown, and gray are colors typically found in these errors. Coverage can be complete or incomplete. The copper can range from a slight tinge to a thick coating.

The proximate cause, according to Mr. White, is prolonged exposure to heat, a failure to maintain an oxygen-depleted atmosphere in the annealing oven, or a combination of both."
-http://www.error-ref.com/improper-annealing/

To my knowledge the process doesn't impact the weight. Still I'd normally be more than happy to weigh the coin for you if it wasn't already slabbed.
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 Posted 07/12/2022  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Willburton to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These coins unless found in one rolls ( sometimes even obw rolls) could be stained by a number of things. It can even get stained at the mint. There are some extreme examples from that year that can be affordable. I think I paid $85 for mine. https://www.PCGS.com/cert/40214815
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 Posted 07/12/2022  1:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CRHunting to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
How do grading services determine what is a genuine improperly annealed planchet? I have not been able to find any references that discuss how to diagnose the error to determine if it is genuine.
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 Posted 07/12/2022  1:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHI to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To me this looks like an improperly annealed planchet. I see the coppery color blending through and because they did grade it MS-64 I don't think its environmental staining. Improperly annealed errors are interesting and attractive to me but there is a lot of confusion and suspect examples out there that examples like this probably aren't worth grading. Of all the errors talked about on this forum I feel these are the most controversial which may lead to a reluctance by many to collect them. Willburtons example stands out and I've thought about sending my 10c example but I'm not sure its worth the cost http://goccf.com/t/419128
Best Find - 1976 D WQ DDO-001 http://goccf.com/t/382777
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 Posted 07/12/2022  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add merclover to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the burden of proof is on the owner of coins submitted. There are a lot, I mean A LOT of nickels out there that ARE environmental toning/tarnishing and or staining either by heat or chemical exposure. We see a lot of tarnished, post mint damaged nickels here. It is a difficult battle.
ša va bien aller

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United States
147 Posts
 Posted 07/12/2022  2:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CRHunting to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CoinHI I couldn't agree with you more. I figured based on other auctions that the coin would be worth ~$60 if attributed by a grading service. I live in Denver so I can submit to ANACS without any shipping cost. Additionally, I received a discount so it came out to about $15 in total to submit the coin so even though it's not a high value coin the math still checked out. Plus to your point, these are a particularly controversial error so without formal attribution there would be debate on legitimacy if I kept it raw.

I actually submitted 3 different coins for improperly annealing with no luck. This nickel was the one that I was about 98% sure should be attributed. 1 of the other 7 coins I submitted was on a tapered planchet and that coin was also not properly attributed. There's zero debate on that coin since a copper cent should not weigh 2.71g (here's that thread: http://goccf.com/t/420049.) That attribution mistake made me want to reevaluate the other coins in that group that I sent that lacked attribution including the one posted in this thread.

merclover I understand there are a lot of discolored coins out there but what do you mean when you say the burden of proof is on the owner? If there are ways to provide proof I'm more than happy to accommodate. We know that this is a real mint error that occurs on coins. There needs to be specific attributes and characteristics we can look for on a coin that allows us to determine which coins are real and which ones are PMD. Otherwise all we're left with are people simply giving their knee jerk opinions. From what I've read this coin checks all the right boxes. Everyone who says they don't believe it's improper annealing won't explain how they came to their conclusion. I genuinely want to learn how to properly attribute these types of coins but so far it seems like there is a significant lack of information about diagnosing these errors.
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 Posted 07/13/2022  1:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CRHunting to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This discussion is a little more about improper annealing than just this one specific coin so I'm going to post images of one of my other submissions as an example.

It's a 1971 half dollar. I've searched through countless half dollars and have seen many different oddly toned coins but this one caught my attention for a couple reasons:
1. The dark toning was evenly distributed across the entire coin
2. The toning had a hint of a copper color
3. The coin was in fantastic condition and exhibited some mint luster and no environmental damage
4. The coin's rim exhibited the exact same dark toning as the rest of the coin

The rim of the coin is what immediately caught my attention. Pretty much all non-damaged Kennedy half dollar have a two-color rim. One distinct strip that's copper colored and another distinct strip that's nickel colored. This coin had only one color in the rim and it was the identical gunmetal + copper color displayed on the rest of the coin. The lack of a dual colored rim on a non-damaged coin really stood out like a sore thumb.

I post this because I'm genuinely trying to get expert advice on what to look for on a coin to determine if it was improperly annealed.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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 Posted 08/19/2022  1:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CRHunting to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I have a final resolution to this one. The ANACS QA dept. reviewed the coin and changed the label as they agreed it was improperly annealed.

Thanks everyone for your input!

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1534 Posts
 Posted 08/19/2022  1:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CoinHI to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congrats, nice to see this worked out.
Best Find - 1976 D WQ DDO-001 http://goccf.com/t/382777
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 Posted 08/19/2022  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Petespockets55 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent news. Kudos to ANACS.
Great to hear they can admit a mistake and correct the issue. Another reason to use ANACS for attribution.

Everyone makes mistakes but the true measure of their integrity is if and how they correct the issue.
Words of encouragement are one of the major food groups.
We need to consume them regularly to thrive and grow.
Valued Member
United States
147 Posts
 Posted 08/26/2022  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CRHunting to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I definitely agree with you. It's only human to make mistakes and for that reason I will always prefer grading services that are willing to acknowledge and correct mistakes.
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