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August RCM 2022 New Releases

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2910 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  02:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MoneyPenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not surprisingly the 2 oz Snowy Owl sold for well below issue price for $143. Factoring in selling fees and free shipping, the seller lost more than $80. Evidently the seller is a newbie because any veteran eBay seller nows that only hot coins should be sold in auction type listings. The Snowy Owl has not sold out and is readily available at issue price everywhere.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
6682 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  10:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Silveroid to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You right.
I watched this auction as well. Same for Otter coin.
It was temptation to get them, but the way auction went, it was clear, that coins are to collect and not to "load".
Pillar of the Community
Canada
650 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Looney4Numi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agreed.

I watched those two auctions as well. After that I sent back my Otter coins.

This tells me that my "loading" days are over...at least for now.

However, I'll still be buying coins for my collection.
Valued Member
Canada
68 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2022  3:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zhuyuecai to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My loading days are over a very long time ago. I realize that the current way RCM operates will eventually destroy the commemorative coin market.
To get profit, RCM will for sure produce good design coins with a high mintage. However, this high mintage turns a collectible coin into an art decoration.
RCM needs to have a way to take benefits from the second market such that it has the motivation to produce low mintage, good-design and non-expensive coins.
And only such kinds of coins will certainly increase their value over time.

I recently got the 2016 WW1 aircraft three coins set in the special metal box, total price is $200, shipping and import tax included.
About $65 per coin. Think about that their issue price was around $100 per coin.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2910 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2022  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MoneyPenney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Agreed.

I watched those two auctions as well. After that I sent back my Otter coins.
This tells me that my "loading" days are over...at least for now.
However, I'll still be buying coins for my collection.


The new eBay taxes is killing the secondary market. If there is a 13% HST on a $100 coin the buyer is paying $13 more than previously. For a $200 coin, $26. $500, $65 more.

So to attract buyers you now need to lower your coin price to offset the taxes. Combine that with final fees, free shipping, you have to sell for a loss.

Some people buy a extra coin or two to sell to offset the cost of coin collecting. There is no point to that with the taxes killing demand for coins on eBay.

My coins are siting on eBay with no buyers. Only sold 1 coin since July 1.
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Learn More...
United States
8279 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2022  09:17 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For several years, eBay "Sold" prices showed the Canadian Mint the actual prices collectors were willing to pay for its coin releases. This made the Sales and Marketing team realize that they were leaving money on the table when setting the issue price for many (most?) of the Mint's coins.

This led to price increases - no surprise - which removed much of the potential profit a small reseller could expect. (When I say "small reseller" I am referring to those who do not get the discounts offered by the Mint to its official, larger-scale distributors/resellers.) When the Mint issued a coin for $69.95 that often sold on eBay for $85-$95 (or more), a profit was possible. When the Mint reset the issue price to $89.95, much, if not all, of the profit was gone for a small reseller who purchased their inventory at retail from the Mint.

There's no doubt the new tax situation is having a real impact, but I see it more as a late-stage impact vs. a starting point.



Collecting history one coin or medal at a time! (c) commems. All rights reserved.
Edited by commems
08/15/2022 09:18 am
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Learn More...
Canada
615 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2022  1:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vonigohcr to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The whole tax thing is a mess. It is hard enough as a Canadian to understand the sales tax rules... to expect eBay to understand and then apply them correctly is a reach. For example.

The definition of a PM bullion coin in Canada is 99.5% pure gold or platinum, 99.9% pure if silver... it is classified as a "Financial Instrument" much like stocks or bonds.

In the maritime provinces, Ontario and Quebec, they have aligned their provincial sales tax with the Federal GST into the Harmonized Sales Tax or HST. If a coin has PM bullion composition then it is classed as exempt from GST/HST and the application of exempt status is consistent. In BC, however, we have separate Provincial Sales Tax (PST) which also doesn't apply to PM bullion coins though there is a caveat... If it is a collector coin, regardless of the composition, it gets PST applied. The difference between collector coin and bullion coin is loosely related to the premium you pay over spot price for the PM.

So if you buy a SML Ounce for bullion value $35CDN +/- there is no GST or PST. If, however you buy a RCM "Collector" Silver Ounce for $99, there is PST but no GST applied. Now the actual Spot price for Silver is approx $26 CDN so the difference between the market price of a SML $35 - $26 is considered as dealer spread and also non-taxable... but at what point does that number change to be considered a collectible premium and not spread, the provincial taxation bulletin states "unless obtained for a purchase price greater than the market value".

As everyone knows, there are SMLs with certain privy marks that can command a price of over $100 whereas there are Proof ounces from the RCM that retail for close to bullion due to market devaluation. It is difficult enough to determine when PST gets applied... For eBay to get it right is asking more than I think they are capable of managing. For this reason, eBay is dead to me now; it was on life support for a long time due to their cavalier attitude to fakes and ease of purchaser fraud but this is the limit...

I am a collector, not a dealer at any scale, and any sale I would make privately would not trigger sales tax since my sales volume is trivial->non existent. Given fees, tax discounts and the risk of fraud, all of my coin sales as I refresh my collection goes through a LCS... I am not sure that I lose that much if anything on a transaction. I use eBay now only for those with storefronts for items I compare with Amazon or other online retailers... the concept of a home based business/amateur using eBay as a sales channel is a relic of history.


For an arcane Canadian tax situation... The way GST/HST works is that every transaction along the chain is taxed vs. end point taxation like most US Sales taxes or Provincial taxes. So GST gets charged on B2B transactions. Example... If a retail gold dealer and buys "scrap" gold from old jewellery, it will typically not be at 99.5%. He then sends it to a refiner who returns the same gold at 99.5% or better and charges a refining fee. You would assume that the only tax applicable would be the GST/HST on the refining fee but there are cases where the CRA has deemed the transfer of the gold to the refiner as a sale since the product sent is not the same as the product returned... So the dealer is deemed to have sold non-bullion gold to the refiner and as such GST/HST needs to be applied. The refiner is then deemed to have sold the bullion gold back to the dealer where GST/HST does not apply to the gold but does to the refining fee since that would be a line item on the invoice. Now assuming that the deemed value of the "scrap" is the same as the bullion (weight will be less as the alloyed materials will be removed), the dealer is on the hook for the GST/HST applicable to the value of the gold... 5% GST due would be around $110 per ounce... 13% HST would be around $300 per ounce. This process interpretation has occurred during GST tax audits resulting in penalties and fines to the dealer who is accused of under reporting tax.
Valued Member
Canada
322 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2022  5:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rjlavoie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like there is a business opportunity for someone to set up a website for buyers and sellers to match up with each other, similar to a flea market. Sell tables (pages) to sellers and charge a small fee to buyers to come in and look around. Allow sellers to book a virtual table and get ready through the week for the weekend virtual flea market, where buyers can haggle with the sellers. I mean really, who looks forward to getting up early on the weekend to go browse a fleamarket when you can just do it from the comfort of your home. Sellers can book their tables for multiple weeks and just add or remove items as necessary. The early risers can get the best deals while still in their jammies. Sellers can be listed by region and buyers can pay to browse their local region or pay admission to browse other regions. Perhaps, sell buyer subscriptions. And when someone says why go to your fleamarket, because there is no middleman involved in the transaction and adds are limited to those without subscriptions. This could really take off.
I call it ebay.ca or go international with ebay.com. It looks like both are available. Well Sharks, who's with me?
Edited by rjlavoie
08/15/2022 5:55 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
650 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2022  8:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Looney4Numi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So to attract buyers you now need to lower your coin price to offset the taxes. Combine that with final fees, free shipping, you have to sell for a loss.
My coins are siting on eBay with no buyers. Only sold 1 coin since July 1.

I paid the buyer's taxes on my last sale in Canada just to move it. At least I broke even on that one. (non RCM coin). Selling on eBay is not worth it now.

To summarise what vonigohcr so eloquently stated: They're putting the squeeze on us from all directions.
Valued Member
Canada
68 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2022  10:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zhuyuecai to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Local deals can use Kijiji. But remote deals, a seller needs to set up a way to accept credit card payments. Maybe a personal Shopify store? I don't know. Local dealers are the only option for those who don't want to spend much time on this. I see their spring is coming.
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