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Copper Hips (Human Impaired Post Strike): Who Is The Real Perpetrator?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 541Next Topic  
Valued Member
United States
127 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  05:11 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
The link is to a video of a presentation given by Jerry Bobbe in 2011. I met Jerry back in 1987 and a lot of what he discusses in this video, he has been stating for decades. It applies to coins and TPG in all areas of the market.

Jerry Bobbe is a professional (coin) restorer who works with Colonials and early copper coins. He teaches grading at ANA Summer Seminar and has worked at PCGS. He is concerned about the amount of processing that is taking place with treatment of the surface of coins. Jerry calls the process "human inpaired post strike" or HIPS. He talks about specific examples of ways that coins are being damaged that will affect their quality in the future. He discusses when coins should be worked on and when they should not. Speaker(s): Jerry Bobbe.

https://archive.org/details/EAC1100...pleProRes422
Edited by TheColorofMoney
08/11/2022 05:48 am
Valued Member
United States
127 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  12:15 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nobody is interested in an ex-PCGS grader that spills the beans on the industry ?

Hmmm. I tought this would be a hot discussion here.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2273 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  12:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Nobody is interested in an ex-PCGS grader that spills the beans on the industry ?

Hmmm. I tought this would be a hot discussion here.


It is an hour video, and you only posted this less than 8 hours ago. I'd give it a few days, not everyone can watch an hour video as soon as it is posted.
Valued Member
United States
127 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  2:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jacrispies

Oops, my dry humor is ineffective. Thank you for the retort (or is it heckle ?).

lol
Edited by TheColorofMoney
08/11/2022 2:17 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
910 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  2:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dry humor or not..

You do seem to have no patience with a multitude of things.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2273 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  4:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting video, thanks for sharing.

Jerry Bobbe brought up some interesting topics. I really enjoyed his explanation of original skin and surface quality.

He said that all coins should be worked on, similarly to the Sistine Chapel or the Stradivarius violins. Preservation allows the item to be enjoyed for generations to come in an original state. Preservationists should remove, with copper coins, 99% of a distracting spot, removing the spot almost entirely but allowing the metal surface to be unaffected. Bobbe himself is a preservation expert and advocates expert handling.

Jerry Bobbe goes on to describe how there are so many coins being preserved, and ruined by mainly goat hair brushes (I found it amusing how he avoided answering a question about how he uses his personal brush to preserve coins). Bobbe says that 99% of coins are not original and have been messed with at one point or another. TPGs seem to overlook the small issues and grade on eye appeal. Collectors and dealers are trying to change the coin to get that upgrade with a TPG. This creates a chain reaction of people constantly changing a coin to get the next higher grade.

It seems to me that the market is the problem. People's ignorance on originality leads the market to pay up for "better" coins. Those coins having a pleasant appearance, but have some serious preservation issues upon closer inspection. If the market's opinion on this topic changed and stopped paying up for problem coins, then the TPGs would not grade those coins as such. The TPGs are just following the money.

It seems to me that preservation is better off being avoided (except extreme cases). Avoiding it would prevent accidents and improper preservation.
Valued Member
Germany
295 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  5:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HP2001PH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found his point about how grade levels should overlap enlightening (AU 58 should be more valuable than MS-63, and that many crappy coins are graded AU-58, that should be 50 or 53). And how he thinks that the current grading, how its handled and perceived, helps destroy or at least damage valuable coins.
Edited by HP2001PH
08/11/2022 5:11 pm
Valued Member
United States
127 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  5:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
NumismaticsFTW

OK you can set the timer and be the timekeeper.

Some people are fast, others are slow.

lol
Pillar of the Community
United States
2322 Posts
 Posted 08/11/2022  10:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't watch the video, but he actually said that all coins should be worked on? Seriously? What bunk! I have silver coins in the same 2x2s since 1972, and there's barely even a hint of toning near the edges. Blazing mirror surfaces on many of them. From the late 1940s when minted until 1972 they sat raw in a box completely unprotected. Maybe in another 50 years they'll need to be "preserved."

99% of coins are not original? Again, seriously?
Valued Member
Germany
295 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2022  12:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HP2001PH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think he said 99% of high graded very valuable early US coins.
I also don't remember he said ALL coins SHOULD be worked upon
Maybe watch the video.
Edited by HP2001PH
08/12/2022 01:01 am
Valued Member
United States
127 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2022  01:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
HP2001PH

I watched the video a few times and I only heard Mr Bobbe discuss "valuable" coins generally. Sometimes he referenced Conder tokens, other times large cents, but in general he is talking about coins at the level where a jump from AU 50 to MS 62 is a significant financial gain.
Valued Member
Germany
295 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2022  01:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HP2001PH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was under the impression that he was talking about early US coins mainly in his concern about „losing our coins".

Of course he mentioned the tokens often.
Valued Member
United States
127 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2022  02:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
HP2001PH

Yes, he laments how many US coins are being butchered through shoddy "restoration" in pursuit of the almighty dollar.
Edited by TheColorofMoney
08/12/2022 03:05 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
910 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2022  03:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumismaticsFTW to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great video with valuable information.

I learned a few things!

I definitely have met mental defectives in our hobby
Edited by NumismaticsFTW
08/12/2022 03:12 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
2273 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2022  10:11 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
He wasn't exactly clear on what coins he was talking about. I stand corrected from what I said in my earlier post, and I agree that it was "valuable" coins in reasonable condition, not all coins. He did make mentions to conder tokens and large cents, then another reference to a Draped Bust quarter being one of the only originals he had seen. But again he didn't specifically draw the line of what he was talking about, and seemed to make generalizations.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts
 Posted 08/12/2022  10:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Always good to be educated...thank you.

KK
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