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1853 Large Cent, You Versus PCGS

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 553Next Topic  
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 Posted 08/11/2022  09:57 am Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
To get a high resolution enough image (uploaded image - could not get it to be high enough quality), I had to employ online image hosting:

https://ibb.co/kDzD5m4
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 Posted 08/11/2022  10:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TobyJ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Gosh I'm not good at non-silver, but it appears to have unbroken surfaces, no marks to the legends but a few small dints to the rim and a very small mark to the cheek. I'm going to say MS66 with low confidence.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  1:44 pm  Show Profile   Check westcoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS64+RB I can see MS65 too, I'm calling it just under the MS65 for the weakness in strike, mostly on the reverse but the stars are not struck fully on the obverse.

I think this looks like the classic orange RB PCGS color conundrum is it RD? Is it BN? We'll call it an RB.

EDIT to add: Newcomb-12?
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1982, Early American Coppers Member (EAC) #6202, Colonial Coin Collectors Club (C4), Conder Token Collector Club (CTCC), & Numismatic Bibliomania Society (NBS) Member, 2 variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
Edited by westcoin
08/11/2022 1:54 pm
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 Posted 08/11/2022  1:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Given that the Trueview pic no doubt flatters the coin (and the owner's ego), I'll say MS-64RB.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
with coinfrog
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 Posted 08/11/2022  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-64RB, the color isn't accurate on these TruViews.
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 Posted 08/11/2022  2:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Coinfrog

Have you ever seen a case where the Trueview looks worse than the actual coin?
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 Posted 08/11/2022  7:30 pm  Show Profile   Check paralyse's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add paralyse to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not Coinfrog but I have, one of my own coins, an 1878-S Morgan, MS details with impaired PL surfaces. The coin in hand looked much nicer than the Trueview. I knew it was on the fence between an old light cleaning or dip and original surfaces but rolled the dice on it and it didn't straight grade.

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 Posted 08/12/2022  10:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kopper Ken to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-64RB

KK
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 Posted 08/14/2022  06:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is only a few hours short of 48 hours since I posted this coin, but I'm going to close it out now.

CCF members were spot-on when it came to grading this nice Large Cent.

PCGS MS 64 RB

This one is for sale by Larry Shepherd (Simco Coins). If Larry chooses to carry this one in his stock, then it must be a real looker. He is picky.

http://www.simcocoins.com/inventory...#prettyPhoto

Myself, when I looked at the TrueView, I thought it was MS 65 RD. Mark-wise there's little I can find at fault. The die state crumbling is what I assume attributed to the 64 grade. The color itself, if it is more intense red than what is in the TrueView, then I don't understand the RB designation.

(I am not advocating for Larry Shepherd\Simco Coins. I'm just discussing the quality of a coin they have in-stock from my own perspective.)
Edited by TheColorofMoney
08/14/2022 06:54 am
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 Posted 08/14/2022  09:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
if it is more intense red than what is in the TrueView, then I don't understand the RB designation.


trueview almost always alters color designation and grade. this is why both coinfrog and myself always grade the trueview and then drop it a grade and color designation if its not apparent that the coin is a solid RD. in this case the orange coloration and dark areas led to the RB designation as we believe the coin looks darker in hand
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 Posted 08/14/2022  11:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
panzaldi

The current owner states that the coin is more bright\vivid red than the TrueView portrays. If that is the case, then I wonder how it isn't graded a RD.
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 Posted 08/19/2022  11:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Only in hand can you tell what the coin truly looks like.
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 Posted 08/19/2022  11:22 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The current owner states that the coin is more bright\vivid red than the TrueView portrays


then we need in-hand photos to determine that. I wouldnt take anyone's opinion on what they perceive. there is no way this coin looks anywhere near what the trueview is showing and since we dont have in-hand photos we have to assess based on what we see and what we know about the way coins appear in trueview photos
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 Posted 08/19/2022  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TheColorofMoney to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
then we need in-hand photos to determine that. I wouldnt take anyone's opinion on what they perceive. there is no way this coin looks anywhere near what the trueview is showing and since we dont have in-hand photos we have to assess based on what we see and what we know about the way coins appear in trueview photos


You can request additional photos if you wish at simcocoins.com . They would be very happy to assuage your skepticism. All you have to do is write an email and send it off to them asking for whatever reasonable evidence that you need. A total of less than 15 minutes of effort.

I would tend to agree you except about the statement, but in this case the coin is owned by Larry Shepherd, one of the most honest dealers\collectors in numismatics. Since meeting him in 1988, I've never known Mr Shepherd to exaggerate or mis-lead. That is just my sole personal experience.

Larry was president of the ANA, uncovered malfeasance there, and instead of covering it up, he exposed it. He called-out the crooks at ANA that robbed the ANA museum collection over the years, the missing money, turned it all over to the authorities and also took ANA to court. Not only that, as head of Central States, Larry has led a campaign to rid all coin shows of unscrupulous dealers.

In the end, the ANA had to settle with Mr Shepherd. The ANA was determined to be guilty of wrongdoing.
Edited by TheColorofMoney
08/19/2022 8:21 pm
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 Posted 08/21/2022  11:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You can request additional photos if you wish at simcocoins.com .


no need to. I'm not looking to purchase the coin, just grade it which everyone who did nailed the grade and color. if you want to prove your point ask him to send you in-hand photos, repost, and we will be glad to comment on the color
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